Confusion about Punishments

Confusion about Punishments

AngelBunny • May 4, 2020

I am not an experienced submissive but I do know something about behavior modification. I'm probably kicking a hornet's nest but for some time I have struggled with how some Dom's punish their subs. I'm especially concerned about physical punishment because it seems to be a slippery slip to becoming abusive. Why are not natural and logical consequences used more often? They do require more forethought but they are effective in changing behavior and decrease the likely hood of it crossing into abuse. Also, why don't I see more about using positive reinforcement and shaping behavior? Again this is effective in changing behavior. "Good girl" gets tossed around a lot but for me it's lost its effectiveness.

I realize some subs prefer physical punishment and in that case I get it. I just worry about the subs who don't and are trusting their Doms to know what they are doing. I noticed some Doms like to say they are "strict" and in my imagination I envision being beaten with a cane over a small thing I forget to do because my ADD got in the way. So I practice social distancing with those Doms because if I was put in that situation I would go into my fight and flight response. Am I misunderstanding their meaning?

Abyssful​(sub female) • May 4, 2020

For me, physical "punishment" is more funishment. It is done for the sake of being done not to actually correct behavior.

RayBug • May 4, 2020

I personally prefer physical punishment/funishment simply because I enjoy that aspect of it. For those that do not enjoy that, it's something that should be discussed deeply with their dom/etc to decide if it's something that should be on the table or not. There are many ways to reinforce good habits, so between the couple, it has to be figured out what works best for that person. Communication is truly key in the area of punishment, as both parties need to be clear on what's expected of each other.

Solace​(dom male) • May 4, 2020

This community is diverse. Straight answer's are only straight when viewed from a single perspective.

Punishment does not have to be physical. From my singular view, the only thing a punishment must be is memorable to the sub. And if it's a real punishment, it can't be funisment, it can't reinforce the behavior instigated it

Rewards are used to discourage bad behavior. Depending on the dynamic it may be orders of magnitude more common than punishment. A special treat in role play, a singular wish, a gift. All and more apply. But again, memorable is what matters.

Re: Confusion about Punishments

tallslenderguy​(other male) • May 4, 2020

Wow, so many good posts on this site! i love this question and thank you for posting it.

i have some decided sub in me, but am not masochistic; and for me it is a distinction. i have a second degree black belt and if a guy gets physical in the wrong way with me, He may end up back kicked into another room (reflexively lol). i try to be clear in my profiles that i am not into physical pain. But then, there's always those complex confounders, no? Well, there are for me. For instance, a Guy i am 'bonded' too could get me to a place of spanking, with His hand. It's not the pain, but His 'marking' His territory by making my bottom red or Him leaving His hand print on me that 'collars' me. So yeah, He could definitely find it as mode of punishment while asserting or reinforcing 'ownership' and 'control' if done 'properly.'

Part two, "positive reinforcement." Oh hell yeah. One of the most powerful experiences of my life was with a Dom who got me to do something the way He liked and wanted it using positive reinforcement. He was persistent and gently relentless, but took a coaching and positive reinforcement approach. Frankly, He took a tone like He was speaking to a kid with me, giving gentle and encouraging direction, never negative. He also reinforce the 'kid' part by praising me with "Good boy!!!" whenever i pleased Him, and phrases like: "I am so proud of you" and "aren't you proud?" with a tone and attitude like He was talking to a kid. And i think key is, He was real and sincere. I.e., this was not role play for Him, He was real and believed and was everything He said and did. i think He effectively collared something in me i did not even know existed, that or He regressed me to where i was that "kid." i could not try hard enough to please Him, every time He praised me for pleasing Him, i redoubled my efforts. Even though i was a mess and uncomfortable, i was so focused and desiring to please Him. Once i did, the end effect was He pretty much owned me emotionally and i literally adored Him. i have not felt that with many Guys, but He managed to emotionally bind and own me.

It's been three years and my adoration for Him is always easily evoked or triggered, all through positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcement has never had that effect on me. But of course, that's me. Yet another example of how important chemistry and communication are i guess.

FloraDragon​(dom male){Roaming Wi} • May 4, 2020

Punishment needs to be honest and come from deep down - I agree there is a danger of a physical punishment becoming 'funishment', and what would that achieve? a submissive pushing the boundaries to receive a punishment that they wish to have, it now changes the dynamic. I believe that chastisement can come from a more psychological level, siting down face to face eye contact saying, 'I am very disappointed with you because' can be a lot more powerful - it works deeper on the psyche. The removal of service can also prove a way of punishment - if a service submissive is not allowed to serve - surely this is a very powerful message? It is a balancing act, but if the relationship is strong it can be worked out and punishment can be successful.

AngelBunny • May 4, 2020

I appreciate all the feedback I am getting! @tallslenderguy, what you described is exactly what I think would work best for me. I know that positive reinforcement would make me adore a Dom! Like you, something as simple as telling me I did a good job would send me to the moon. I am a little bit of masochist but I would prefer for pain to be mixed with pleasure.

AngelBunny • May 4, 2020

I think the expression of disappointment and negative punishment would be the type of punish that would work best for me (negative punishment in terms of operant conditioning).

tallslenderguy​(other male) • May 4, 2020

You do not sound 'confused' to me. i think what is often confused it the attempt from some, on both sides, to treat D/s like a fundamentalist religion. i.e., one or both or all of the parties involved have an absolutist attitude towards the 'right' way or the 'wrong' way to do stuff, and they expect everyone to follow that 'way.' i see some are trying to adhere or conform to what they think 'should be' even though it violates something instinctual in them, so they feel ambivalent or conflicted. There are some people who are wired in such a way that what one may consider "abuse" is 'positive reinforcement' for them.

i see a lot of awesome people on this site, again on both sides of the fence, who believe in the personal nature of relationship and approach it that way, eyes and ears wide open... all the time.

skyrich​(dom male){rottenbrat} • May 5, 2020

Actually they, (natural and logical consequences), are used more often. But they are not as interesting to talk about at times, I suppose.

I have used both physical and mental means of affecting behavior, both positive and negative reinforcement. More often than not, a simple, "I'm disappointed in your behavior -- I need some time alone to think about it" has had the effect I desired. Naturally, this goes hand-in-hand with encouragements and praises for correct behaviors.

Physical "punishments" tend to be more cathartic in nature, not punishments, per se. Physical pain also has the tendency to induce so-called subspace, which, I'm sure, any number of subs here can attest.

Finally, it all comes down to consent.

What makes a spanking not abusive? Consent
What makes sex not rape? Consent
What makes a transaction not robbery? Consent
What makes a job not slavery? Consent
What makes taxation not theft? Magical Fairy Dust

--Rich