serve or please??

serve or please??

Alfasun • Dec 3, 2021

I recently asked several close submissives why they liked being submissive, to which they replied that they found pleasure in serving. It did not seem strange to me since this idea is generalized in the BDSM environment: "A submissive person is to serve his dominant." But is this real? How many submissive people actually serve their dominants? and more importantly, how many find pleasure in service? I would say very few cases. Serving or rather "service" comes from Latin. Servitium ‘slavery, servitude’. And it refers to the fact of being subject to someone's orders and disposition. By transferring it to a BDSM environment, it would be said that the Submissive serves the dominant based on the previously made agreements, but this does not mean that he likes to serve. I think that within BDSM, serving, rather than enjoying obeying, is enjoying the action performed, either by order of the dominant person or on one's own initiative. Pleasing, on the other hand, is accessing what the dominant person wants, causing satisfaction and pleasure for the action performed and obtaining pleasure for himself by the simple fact of obeying and satisfying the need. For example: In cleaning the boots of a dominant person. A submissive who likes service will do the cleaning of the boots without waiting for his dominant to order it, for the simple fact of knowing that he is useful to his Dominant. A submissive who likes to please may be able to enjoy cleaning the shoes but will only do it if the master orders it and his pleasure will come from having obeyed the order, but not from the cleaning that I do. Then we may find that serving and pleasing are not the same and that what most submissive people do is please more not serve. Perhaps this confusion in terms contributes to the problem that so many submissives have when they are asked to serve. It is obvious that no one likes to do things that we do not want, no matter how complacent we are and this in the end does not have to do with "surrender" but with the ignorance we have about our own needs and desires. And do you like to serve or please?

RogueWolf​(dom male){Gaiawolf} • Dec 3, 2021

What you are asking is a little confusing, but I feel I understand.
IF I were to ask you to serve me by cleaning my boots, it would please you to do it because you know that I am pleased by your act of service, which in turn pleases you. There's a fine line, which is not so obvious.
Do you serve me or please me by keeping my boots clean? It could fall either way, it is an act of servitude. The act pleases me. Which is it though?
IF I have asked you to make sure my boots are clean, it's service. IF I make the statement that I like having clean boots and you take it upon yourself to clean them daily, then it's pleasing.
This doesn't mean that IF I have asked you to keep my boots clean you can't enjoy the task, because you know it pleases me to see you obey. IT does mean however that if you do not enjoy the act itself you do it to obey and the obedience itself it was pleases you because it pleases me.

cynthiajoy • Dec 3, 2021

There are some of us in the bdsm community that find joy in service rather than the pain side of it. While it is true that the to set their limits for the relationship, but it is very fair. One hand washes the other so to speak. To me there is no greater joy in seeing the smile of appreciation on the face of my Domme; i know she is happy and that makes me happy. Maybe pleasing is serving. The bible is littered with stories of masters & slaves. True some of them were born into it, but today thanks to bdsm some of us can ask to be owned7slaves/or in service to someone. i can't speak for everyone, i just know that i am not alone in feeling that my place in a given relationship is to be the server and find great joy in it. Honestly i wouldn't have it any other way in my life.

LongerJohnny​(dom male) • Dec 3, 2021

Didn't think this answer was going to be a long as it turned to be...

OP - you are getting waaaaaay too caught up in the language and the words and terms. Ultimately is up to the people involved to decide, regardless what anyone else calls it.
If you are asking more generally it might be helpful to think of it in terms of a submissive "submitting to her Dom" as opposed to "serving her Dom."

It is important to note that "submission" may mean very different things to different people. So perhaps it would be helpful to think of it in terms of the motivation for the act, and not necessarily the act itself.
For example: One Dom's idea of submission is to have his sub change the batteries in the remote while he gets up to take a piss.
Another Dom's idea of submission is to have his sub blow him every morning and night.
But in either case the act isn't what matters. It is all about what makes the sub want to do it.
To use your chosen terms:
1. If a sub finds her greatest pleasure in the idea of serving (by her own definition of the word) - to her it is both pleasure and service.
2. If a sub finds her greatest pleasure in serving her Dom specifically (again, by her own definition of the word) - that too is both, and hopefully for all involved parties.
3. If sub or Dom finds no pleasure whatsoever in any of it then hopefully none of those things will ever happen because they will have been established as limits during negotiations, and even if they weren't they are always subject to a safeword.
Where there is no pleasure, the action comes to a halt, therefore there can be no service of any kind. So it is neither.

A couple of things about what you wrote:

"By transferring it to a BDSM environment, it would be said that the Submissive serves the dominant based on the previously made agreements"
- Ideally, yes. Agreements in this case meaning limits and negotiations.
"but this does not mean that he likes to serve."
- Except that, yeah, it kinda does. When people negotiate and agree on the terms and limits of their dynamic they do so because they find some merit in them, and realizing that in action is pleasing, or at the very least not displeasing.

"Then we may find that serving and pleasing are not the same and that what most submissive people do is please more not serve. Perhaps this confusion in terms contributes to the problem that so many submissives have when they are asked to serve."
- No single person can speak for "most" submissives so suggesting that there is confusion among them, or that "many" submissives are experiencing a universal problem, is a very general, very presumptuous statement.

"It is obvious that no one likes to do things that we do not want"
- Ok, sure. But we must remember that in the in hypothetical scenarios we have been discussing both Dom and sub DO want to do things that they find merit in IF it serves their dynamic.
Again, think of it as the motivation for the act, and not necessarily the act itself.

Like RogueWolf said
"it would please you to do it because you know that I am pleased by your act of service, which in turn pleases you."

It is the bdsm equivalent of an if-then statement paired with a causality dilemma just for zest.

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Dec 4, 2021

P.a.r.a.g.r.a.p.h.s are your friend. (and ours)

erzascarlet​(sub female) • Dec 5, 2021

My biggest question for this post is why can it not be both. As a sub I do get pleasure from serving with nothing in return other than knowing that my Dom is pleased (when and if I find one). I would enjoy being told by my Dom what he likes me to do because than I know exactly how to provide him service to please him. But at the same time their are things I would do for my Dom without being told. Because I get pleasure from pleasing and being of service. I think they are one and the same. If you do not get pleasure from the act than why else would you do it?

RogueWolf​(dom male){Gaiawolf} • Dec 5, 2021

Obedience. Is that pleasing by serving or serving to please? It's a bit of blurry line and it can be both.

erzascarlet​(sub female) • Dec 5, 2021

For me personally and I can not speak on anyone else's except my own it's pleasing by serving. Do I get pleasure from it yes but I do not do it for my pleasure but for my Doms.

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Dec 5, 2021

[quote="RogueWolf"] It's a never ending circle then. Is the sub being *obedient* because it's pleasing to their dominant or does the sub simply find pleasure in obedience without any thought of reward for themselves?

erzascarlet​(sub female) • Dec 5, 2021

If it was simply for the pleasure of obedience than one would obey anyone who gave a command. Therefore it's more for the service and pleasure of the subs Dom. The one they choose to give their service too.