What is it really...

Taramafor​(sub male) • Oct 29, 2020

Compare direction to having your choices and decisions made for you. You can still put someone in a situation and leave them with their own choices and decisions. Regardless of the situation they're in.

A good dom may say "X should be enough of a deterrent to keep you in line". This avoids speaking for you. A mistake they'd avoid at all costs. They will never decide FOR you. Only influence and persuade. By whatever means they employ. Be it providing incentive, employing punishment/torture, or even threaten your life. But you're going to have to go out of your way to mess up once things have been made THAT clear. You've been given a choice. What you get away with and what rewards/affection you receive is dependent on your own response to such situations. Being casual, positive and playful always fairs better then being negative. Being direct with your actions can work out too, even when under threat. If I had to pick an analogy... I always get those high speech/charisma rolls with the dice. Even when my back is pressed up against a wall. Actually that's where I shine. It's something i learned to do long ago. How many people claiming to be capable pull that off?


I would say so. The more you go through such experiences and getting good results, the more capable you are. Even if you're already capable the reminders help. And leads to having a good time in various situations. The experience you have with that dom could be employed with "random armed stranger in the street". Who kissed my hand and parted in peace after falling out in a debate. Observation gets taken note of. As does reminders of self defence. Also helps with talking sense into suicidal nitwits. In the end it's all about controlling the situation, incentive, what reasons people have. Sometimes they don't need to be stated. Sometimes they do. What are we without reason? Direction needs goals. Otherwise power becomes "absolute". And you know what they say about absolute power.

TieHardTwo • Oct 29, 2020

Tbh I don't think these are just two categories. We have met hundreds of people who describe themselves as subs and there are so many different ways of doing this. Some subs are actually really very controlling but just very passive. They want to be the center of attention and want their Doms to 'do things to them'. Essentially their sexual fantasies revolve around what is happening to them. Nothing wrong with this. A German dom friend of ours who used to sub for us but now runs prison experiences in Germany describes domming subs like this as 'service Domming' and the reality is that the sub is in fact in charge but enjoys pretending not to be while playing. At the other end of the spectrum are what I think of as the genuine subs. These tend to be very powerfully orientated as people pleasers - they really, really love being controlled and pleasing others. A good way to distinguish between these two extremes is to give the sub a choice in something about a scene, the former will generally take the choice and specify something they really want, the latter will actually look really disappointed and usually try and wriggle the decision back onto the Dom. All of this, of course, is the behavior that takes place outside of the boundaries contracting. My own preference is for genuine subs - I tend to get a bit irritated by controlling subs to be honest and find them a bit of a turn off in the end - (but if they are cute and our interests align then they can work well short term...)

Bunnie • Oct 29, 2020

I guess the common thread that everyone seems to agree on is that a huge defining factor between what makes someone a Dominant and what makes someone a submissive, is whether they simply choose to be the one in control or the one being controlled. Sounds obvious enough... but is it really?

Taramafor​(sub male) • Oct 29, 2020

No, it's not obvious. Otherwise people wouldn't have mental problems at all. Fear also factors in. If nothing else people fear losing control. Or the responsibility that comes with having it.

Control can be a choice BUT for something to be a choice it must first be an option. The bane of control and choice is ignorance. Not knowing what to do. Being blind and confused. Now being blind and confused can be fun at times, but that's with guidance from another. When you're on your own, not knowing what to do when everything is falling apart around you, you're not in control of that situation (or they). If they can't take control then you might be the only one that can. You might tell yourself you can't. That it's impossible. But you always can. Better to try and fail then to never have tried at all.

Consider how much you know now. Consider how much you knew ten years ago. Considering Bunnie has stated she's finding happiness outside of what she used to know (different thread. I pay attention) that alone proves she's controlling herself better. Not letting irrational fear do it for her. This also means she can inform others about that. That's what I do. It improves other peoples confidence. I don't really think of control when I do that though. Instead I'm thinking more along the lines of "Supporting them gets them to support me." Mutually beneficial. We all want that. To have others engage with us, play with us, amuse us. And I choose to make it happen when I can. But in order to do so I also know people can be close minded, turn deaf ears and have their heads up their own ass. You got to get used to "rejection". Then focus on those that listen and actually find out. You face conflict in order to get past conflict too. Or linger in it and live in fear. Many a person allow themselves to be silent. Many a person don't know any other option. Many a person will be blamed for that, yet be blamed for speaking up when they finally do. Because of things like "guilt tripping". Because YOU are sensitive.

No one likes feeling like they messed up. But if I messed up I don't whine or bitch or complain. I accept that I did. And focus on what I can do. "The situation is what it is. Now let's make the best of it." Works in computer games. Works in BDSM. Works in life. Step 1: Acceptance. The professionals can get a lot wrong but when it comes to this they're very much on the ball. Accept the situation for what it is. Then do something about the situation. Thing is a lot of people fall into denial, or focus on negatives. Circumvent responsibility. If it was simple this wouldn't happen. And it really is quite bothersome.

To be in control begins with knowing what is honest. Without awareness there is no control of the situation. You won't find that kind of awareness in BDSM only circles. You have to branch out and put it behind everything that you are as a person. Control and lack of it exists behind everything we do. What we decide to do or let happen. How much resistance we put up. How we get others to engage and play with us.

And finally I've employed a tactic even when it only SEEMS like there's two options. "Make another". If people try to make you choose, you don't have too. Or can choose both. As one example. Punishments and torture is just another word for "pressure" if you think about it. Incentive and rewards being "Bait". Combined together it's a question of wherever it's worth the end goal. Though if the journey is made pleasant it also becomes about the journey. Not the destination. When you get someone else to want to be with you in whatever situation, that is control. When someone gets you to want to be with them, they control you. The only question at that point is if they realise they're doing it or not.

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Nov 18, 2020

In my experience, my attraction to him compels me to follow.
HIs attraction to me compels him to lead.

He wants to take.
I want to be taken.

We are our most authentic in those moments and it is comfortable.
It's organic, palpable and hard wired.

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Nov 18, 2020

Bunnie: "I guess the common thread that everyone seems to agree on is that a huge defining factor between what makes someone a Dominant and what makes someone a submissive, is whether they simply choose to be the one in control or the one being controlled. Sounds obvious enough... but is it really?"

It isn't a choice for me. It is a natural reaction to my Dominant partner.

But after all these years, not many can just play the part and hit my buttons. My radar is
refined and I know what I feel if it is natural in someone I am interested in.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Nov 21, 2020

Been thinking about this. Some stuff happened lately.

A good dom will play along with a sub. For example, I said "What if I always do as I'm told?" This simple question just lead to a whole lot of spontaneous things happening.

They actually bent over as a joke at first.

Then it's them getting me to call them things. Guess they were experimenting.

... Next thing I know I'm being taken walkies.

... And being told to say goodnight in bed. They legit went "Now say good night". If I say yes to always dong as I'm told then it gets people to want to get me to do things for them.

They did the things, sure. But me? I kept the communication clear. I actually pointed out traits about them that I noticed (some of my own too). Naturally, this will lead to being appreciated from the attention. Ego, take notice of people (accurately) and they'll be more likely to engage with you. If you can get them to "play along" with you.

A good dom plays along.

But it's a good sub that takes the lead and sets those events in motion. If you don't show you have a brain and can at least try to make fun happen then why would they play with you?

Miki​(masochist female) • Nov 21, 2020

Both strike me as a more visible form of codependence. Those that live "the lifestyle" full time vs couples who enjoy a symbiotic relationship at home but go about daily work-a-day life rather independently. Sure each partner has something to say about certain decisions or moves related to a career path, but once out of the house and in the world, they function as individuals. The full-timers center their purpose around their dynamic.

None of this is meant to diss "the lifestyle", but describe it as I see it and why I am absolutely not a "real" sub. I'll never give up my r. l. independence for anything. The masochist side is strictly a function of my sexuality and when the clothes come back on, the masochist aspect gets set aside, put away like night clothing, if you will.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Nov 21, 2020

Are you implying doms and subs living twenty four seven/life style aren't individuals? Likely not. But you see how it can be interpreted.

MOST in the lifestyle seem more focused on JUST toying with people. But there's much more to being a dom or sub then that. Or S/M even. Those in the lifestyle twnty four second aren't going to be the same as those that "Sometimes play at home" for example.

Personally, for me, it's a "way of life". Lots of fun and play, sure. But it's what I'm like as a person. A lot of people will pretend they can separate the two, but honestly, you can't. We do what we do and are into what we're into BECAUSE of what happens in our lives.


I'm sure you'd like to think so. But let's be honest here. If someone is lightly stroking something along your shoulder or leg (someone you know but might not yet have engaged with) then you're probably going to melt. It doesn't actually get set aside or left behind. You can't just magically "Not be a masochist all of a sudden". It just appears that way because who's going to do that in day to day life? Not many. But it DOES happen. Especially when you talk about things at a campfire. I think you're more referring to people you know vs strangers.

I'm lumping people at work into the stranger category unless you've actually talked about personal things btw (which can further leads to activity/doing things). That's going to vay depending on who you ask.

Miki​(masochist female) • Nov 21, 2020

No one touches me when I am out and about in real life, fella. By saying I would "melt"?? Presume much? No offense taken or intended, but honestly, you don't know me from a hole in the wall.

And as "individuals" I mean decisions that are not life altering like job changes, selling the house, renting a different apartment, shit like that, neither needs the other's permission. No one picks out what I wear to the store or to work or, back when I used to go out, to the club. The latter is quite a moot point in the New reality.

As I said, above all, that's my opinion on what "defines" a sub and dom. A sub wants direction, a dom feels the need to give it.