slave vs submissive...

Fudbar​(dom male){❤️❤️❤️} • Sep 19, 2018

This is a damn good and important point Wakko, and one that got lost in translation from Old Guard to new.

Top and Bottom are meta terms that speak to overall preference, and were and are much more widely used in the leather and gsy scenes that the Old Guard originate from.

It was and is perfectly acceptable to simply identify as Top or Bottom, and M/s was understood as a much more serious commitment beyond that, with more ritual, bond and commitment.. but that had to come from somewhere, and being part of the community without owning or being owned was and is just fine.

With the introduction of the more vague D/s terminology, it supplanted both. One could be a Dom/sub without a partner on the other side of the slash. When folks now say "I'm a sub but not YOUR sub.." that translates to "I'm a bottom, but you don't own me..".

That new D/s term allowed folks who didn't like the required and strict ritual and deference in Old Guard for comunication within the scene (All Masters called Sir or Master, not allowed to speak without permission, etc..) to have fun and be themselves at play parties. The baby lost with the bathwater there was the idea that one could simply say "I'm a bottom" or "I like topping" and play, gain experience and get mentored BEFORE even considering if they were ready to accept the commitment and effort of being in a M/s or D/s relationship.

Subs who don't get that end up jumping into relationships way too soon or agreeing to things just because they think that's what's expected. Doms who don't get that think every sub should show them that OG deference and that those they approach are ready for a D/s relationship simply because they label as sub.

It also eliminates Switch confusion and shunning. Switch is simply "Sometimes I like to top, sometimes I'm a bottom.. it depends on the vibe, person and mood.". Perfectly acceptable.

LatexHer​(dom male) • Sep 19, 2018

I wish to refer everyone back to my post in which I mentioned that anyone who abuses their slave will be slaveless!

I have seen many marriages and relationships fail - mainly due to miscommunication or by one partner failing to grow with the other! D/s relationships take time and much effort in order to build trust in one's partner - sometimes to the point of trusting your life to him/her! I can personally attest to my own failure long ago during which time I did not recognize my ladies fear of hard bondage. Thank God, that we remained friends. After 20 yrs she voiced her fear of some of the things I enjoyed back then and still do! Unfortunately for both of us - I did not comprehend in my youth that a girl of 20 who had never heard of Bondage, Rubber, or Gags may have issues with a dude wanting her to wear them!

We are both remarried and are all good friends today. Funny thing growing into mature adults from the kids we once were! Women should not try to change men and we should not try to change them, I believe today. The role play games we all enjoy can become a wonderful way to release the tensions of life, especially when understood by all consenting adults!

I am proud to be a Dom, and simply put enjoy the hell out of it when my woman places my cane or flogger on our bed! This is her signal that she has had a bad day at her professional job, and would enjoy a loving spanking! Yes, sometimes we men do not readily know without a signal what our ladies want Tension release can be so much pleasure with some limited pain! An ole Sadist like me - just enjoys providing that part of play for her!

All - Thanks for your comments and remember - "Life is short, Don't let it slip you by!"

dollMaker​(dom male) • Sep 19, 2018

The danger here is accepting, or presenting anything from earlier periods as being fact or wide spread fact. There are a number of interesting articles online about the mythos built up regarding the Old Guard and the 'so called fact' of universality of approach and ethos, which seems from what a number of respected writers from that period say is not infact a fact but only represents isolated pockets of approach, definitions etc, which varied from place to place and that was more the norm, than there being some sort of unified culture. This was before the Net, kink was very underground and groups were somewhat isolated geographically.

So to present anything from one location as being widespread fact is a very risky propsition. I do not doubt that some groupings, in some places may have used the definitions mentioned but did all have that? Is the use of the word submissive really that new? The answer to that one I think will be very hard to give as what might be fact in one location, country may be different elsewhere.

Fudbar​(dom male){❤️❤️❤️} • Sep 19, 2018

Good point, dollMaker. Discussion so far definitely centered on American Old Guard scene. Brittain, Germany, France, India, Asia all different from that.

PappaBear • Sep 19, 2018

I think it’s all an attempt to find something that describes each of us in the most basic and respectful terms possible. All slaves are submissive but not all submissives are slaves. When you consider the negative connotations of the word slave and all the deep seeded fear of being trapped with out a say as opposed to being able to choose your Master. I think it’s really no wonder so many who would enjoy being a slave have a problem using the term. What’s in a word...? What ever we fill it with.

As to the more specific question, for my 2 cents, I would define the subtle difference as 24/7 TPE. The limits still stand, just as LatexHer stated. Anything that is not both 24/7 AND TPE is not a full on slave role. Think about everything an average person thinks of as a slave strip away what we enlightened few realize about the give and take of power/control now reduce it to what you cannot strip away and I think you will arrive at the same subtle distinction.