Submissive verses Slave

Nitrev​(dom male) • Mar 9, 2024

I wanted to wait for Twinkle to respond before answering, but I'm a big advocate of your lifestyle relationship being individual and up to you and your partner(s) to figure out the terms of your relationship. These are are all fair game. Subs can consider themselves owned, you don't have to be called a slave to be owned, and somebody can identify as a slave and only do so temporarily. It's not conventional, but it's also none of my business.

A Master/Mistress and slave dynamic is usually 24/7. You've probably heard for TPE: Total Power Exchange. It is submitting the totality of control to your Dom/me, continuing to live the lifestyle outside of scenes, 24/7. Usually people that engage in TPE will identify with the slave role. The keyword in TPE is exchange: slaves give up that control to the Dom/me as an exchange for the Dom to use that control to take care of them. Slaves can also seek to take care of their Dom/mes, providing things like housework or sexual services, but the difference is those services are in the immediate, short term conveniences to remove some burden from the Dom/me's lives, but slave does these things on the promise and belief in their Dom/me to provide them with long term sustainability, structure, simplifying their lives and responsibilities, and a higher quality of living than can be had individually. That exchange is essential to the relationship between a Master/Mistress and slave: slave gives up the controls that best enable Master/Mistress to build the lives they want and even more. If slave does not do their part, the Master/Mistress can not do theirs as well, and if the Master/Mistress does not do theirs, the slave has no reason to do theirs.

So it's not that a slave cannot disobey, but when you're in a dynamic that functions at its best when the two sides are doing their part to make it work, why would you disobey, unless you did not feel good about where the relationship is/is going? We are adults, and we should realize that there shouldn't be a need for sabotaging behavior and it's in our best interests to work together if we are in a TPE. It's something I think about with brats: bratting has a wide array ranging from light playful jabbing to extremes like lashing out and flat out disrespect, and it's considered as part of the fun, but if a TPE best functions when the slave and Master are doing their part, then that acting out becomes self-sabotaging. And it's not that the Dom/me barks orders, but that the slave by their position has put their faith in the Dom/me to lead and that means also utilizing the slave in the ways that best realize those goals that we entered into a relationship for in the first place.

And I know you were saying this in reference to fake Dom/mes, and you may already know this, but I want to explain it for anyone that doesn't understand the dynamic between the two roles.

Last that I want to mention is that 24/7 is not 'just' for slaves. Pets, littles, bimbos, dolls, etc. can also be in 24/7 dynamics with their own sets of rules

farashacaveluv • Mar 12, 2024

They are not interchangeable. I would definitely not engage with anyone who does such things. There has to be a clear line.

Literate Lycan​(dom male) • Mar 12, 2024

Ultimately these are just variations of titles that we like to use. It is a starting point but quite often these terms are on a sliding scale (within a certain distance) based upon the individuals and their interactions and partners. I especially enjoyed what Morley wrote above and it captures pretty much how I feel. To be clear, most civilized societies outlawed slavery a very long time ago. A true slave has absolutely zero choice including over life and death. But within our community, there is a broad band as to what a slave is, tending from some slaves being less submissive than submissives to some slaves having absolutely no thoughts of their own enjoying the chain and the collar. In a fantasy setting of their mind, it gives them a safe space.

TPE - Total power Exchange - also has some degree of perspective and applies to submissives as well as slaves. Many submissive types indicate they have slave tendencies. I tend to view those identifying as slave to be intent upon finding someone who will Master them. They will perhaps have less of a voice in their interactions?

In the end, it’s honestly how do you like to view yourself within your dynamic with your partner? Yes, some of you will indicate you wouldn’t interact with someone who used the terms interchangeably. That’s Jim Dandy! But apparently we can call ourselves a cat and everyone needs to bow down to how we view ourselves, so if someone wishes to view themselves as a slave within the confines of their dynamic, that shouldn’t ruffle any feathers.

I just see identifying as a slave is along the spectrum of submission, because you are submitting. Perhaps in your mind you are in a deeper submission; however, I know a number of submissives who do not identify as slave, yet are so deep in their commitment and submission that you would be hard pressed to find a difference.

tmo50nv​(sub male) • Mar 15, 2024

Being a submissive it is very frustrating when talk with a potential dom and she calls me slave. Thats when I have to explain that I am not, nor will This sub be anyone's slave. Some get it but most do not? When a text comes in addressed slave, This sub will not answer it, in fact it gets deleted

tmosubNV

I'mME • Mar 15, 2024

tmo50nv,

Hi. The very fact that someone (a stranger) uses a label when they write you makes me think they have no knowledge of BDSM and the large sub-category of Authority exchange relationships....

BrittanyD​(switch female) • May 12, 2024

for me they are similar, yet different. it is kind of hard to explain in a way that I feel others may understand but I will try.

in my current relationship. my Miss. is the Dominant partner. She is the one that is leading things, she is the one that I have chosen to given over power to. yes I am still learning myself as a sub. but in the time I have been with Her, I have grown a great deal. to me the main difference is the protocol, the routines, the structure. the way I have learned to see things. sub or slave, we are all submissive. every slave is still a sub. but not every sub can/wants/or will be a slave.

the more I have learned under my current Owner, the more that I have wanted. early on we were just D/s. to me this is more slayed back, informal, relaxed. yes there was rules and protocol to be followed. but things were much more lax. the standards that I was held to were not as high as they are now. and for some that is what works best, and that is great. find what works best for you and run with it.

but for me. the more that I have learned. and the more comfortable I became with myself and my submission. the deeper I fell. crossing that line into slave, for me, the biggest differences was the level of protocol, the amount of routines, the level of structure. all of these went up, to a whole new level. we added so much more. and yet She still holds me responsible for every action, for every thought. She does not allow me to slip on the little things anymore, the way that She used to.

But the biggest change, the biggest difference. has been in the way that I view things, the way that I think. as Her slave, everything that I do is for Her. it is no longer about me or my wants. yes my needs are still met. but my focus has shifted. it was what do W/we want or need. what is best for us. or how can we be better.. now though. for me. as Her slave. Her property. my joy, my pleasure, my thoughts and actions. are all focused on Her. Her needs. Her wants. how can I make Her day better. what does She need in any given moment. as Her slave, I find my peace, calm, and happiness in serving Her. taking care of Her. and doing everything in my power to make Her day better and easier. it is no longer about my wants as Her sub. it is a deeper commitment from me to Her.

insideanonymous​(sub female) • May 13, 2024

Slave is brainless; absolutely not - they have to do all thinking around understanding they are the most powerful person (yes person) to have someone believe they are just a thing.

Things don't think. A slave has to think - otherwise they would not know how to surrender, trust and accept being powerless knowing they are the ones who actually have the power.

Intelligent - yes, that is what they are.

kajisun​(other female) • May 14, 2024

Wow, I was just asking about this same question.

I have been seeing a lot of profiles both on here and other sites like Fetlife, and speaking to D types that use the term interchangeably. These D Types would basically be expecting the s type person to give everything up and over like within a TPE, but would just say they were looking for a submissive.
I do understand that a number of titles can be under the submissive umbrella, but a submissive slave would not be the same as a submissive little or a general submissive. I get people see things differently, but I wholeheartedly don't believe a slave, and a general submissive are interchangeable.


With a general submissive, in my understanding, they have more autonomy and ability to negotiate more before and within the relationship. This includes the relationship being more open to change if the submissive realized that certain things were damaging to their mental health, maybe the submissive would want more/less tasks, or maybe kids growing into a different age range is taking a toll more than it was before. There can be a wide variety of things that can happen and a straight submissive would have more power than a slave in re-negotiations. They would also have more power during their day in what order to take care of tasks given to do, if they want to work, what they do in their free time, or where they go as long as the D type is getting what he needs in the dynamic and is under the terms of the contract.

In my understanding for slaves there are discussion to negotiate, but once discussions are done and set, then complete power goes over to the D type, and that is it, no further negotiations unless the Master has allowed it to some degree. Slave types are generally not really given any or very little autonomy, and the negotiations can be extremely thorough so there isn't much reason for re-negotiations. I feel slave's lives in general are micromanaged almost entirely. Master says "Jump" and the slave asks "How high". Hmmm or they may already know how high because it has already been negotiated.

I have seen it mentioned here on the cage as well as other sites, that some see slaves as being brainless or having no personality, and while I don't think this is the case, I think that maybe for the most part, that may be just what the slaves want to do. Maybe they that need that in their life. They don't have to think about what they are doing because their Master has already told the slave what they are going to be doing at all times. For example, when they use the bathroom, when they eat, when they need to be a table or topless as a party favor for their guests, or just when they need to sit on the floor and wait for a command. Slaves don't have think about what people think unless it would be displeasing to their Master, nor worry about money or how they dress because it is all up to their Master's pleasure. They don't have to think because it has already been worked out that all they need to worry about is pleasing their Master. I think some thinking has to come in memorizing what the Master wants and predicting what would please him most. As most hopefully know though, not all dynamics are the same, but I really feel that is what is different. I could be wrong, but that is also why I ask different people, read, or watch videos because it gives me a better perspective of what the BDSM dynamics look like in real world applications.


I would also respectfully disagree with @TopekaDom that the difference is simply a collar. From various perspectives that I have been reading through, a collar could symbolize a slave giving up all control to his/her Master, but it could also mean that as a person on the "s" side of the slash, they are taken and no longer available to the dating pool, not necessarily a slave. I have heard/read that a collar in that situation can be almost like a marriage to them or even seen as more important than a marriage, rather than just the decision to turn a submissive into a slave.

Sweetlydepraved​(masochist female){I Guess } • May 14, 2024

I didn’t read all of the responses closely but in my case I identify as a slave, masochist, and little. He is an owner, sadist, and Daddy.

Being a slave, for us, has nothing to do with having my life micromanaged. It does have everything to do with choices. I gave up my right to make choices, IF Daddy chooses to be in charge of said choice. Otherwise, I manage myself.

An example might be that I put on an outfit, Daddy decides he doesn’t like it and tells me to change. I don’t say no, I don’t complain, or argue the point. I obey. If I REALLY wanted to wear said outfit, I would ask Daddy if I may explain why I want to wear it. He might say yes, and then I’d plead my case. He might say no and I’d go change. I would take his final decision as the only decision with no argument. If I were to argue, because I sometimes do, he is well within his rights to punish me for that.

As my owner his word is law. As my Daddy, he is a little more indulgent and he would likely let me wear the outfit anyway. As my sadist, he might just decide to whip me for not being mindful of his preferences in the first place.

If I were his submissive, I would still have the authority to veto a decision, if I chose to. I would never enter into a new dynamic as a slave because I need to spend an extensive period of time observing his decision making process before I give them over to him.

As far as limits go, I gave up having the choice of what my limits are. However, I made sure to be in a dynamic where my hard limits also match his. An example is being shared, hard limit for me. It’s also a limit for him, he doesn’t share. However, if he were to change his mind, I would obey because he is within his rights to do that.

Being a slave is both simple and complicated because all you really have to do is obey, but sometimes obedience is the most difficult thing to accomplish. When it comes down to it, I really only have to ever make one choice, do I obey or do I not obey. Most of the time I do, sometimes I don’t, but at the end of the day, Daddy always wins.

cherilynn​(sub female) • May 18, 2024

This debate has been going on for years, if not centuries and unfortunately things have been so changed and rearranged over the years that so many definitions that we use to go by have been lost. Personally, I find that tragic but it is what it is.
Furthermore, trying to lump people together into categories is so time consuming and pointless. There are many different types of Dominants, Masters, Submissives and Slaves. It is so much easier and less confusing to just ask people to tell you who they are and if they can't, well that's an answer in and of itself.

I tend to stay clear of folks who use terms interchangeably because it tells me they either don't know or don't care and that's a deal breaker for me.


Just two cents from a dominant slave