In Need of a Community Voice and Opinion

Shiro​(sub female) • Nov 26, 2018

I can agree with you Miki, on that front. Mental abuse is still mental abuse though, and it takes two people. She could remove herself, however maybe this woman has a mental illness and no one is viewing it from that angle. It is hard to leave an abuser, and NO they do not have to be next to you. I haven't read what was said by people on this thread that were being defensive of the so called sadist( I try to avoid negativity - see above trigger), but if this drama is affecting this whole site this friggin much, I think maybe this thread is a good healthy discourse. And I do not know this person, but sociopaths are very cunning and charismatic unless you are their partner. I have no doubt of someone's ability to create a facade online of who they want people to see them as.

However, I think that someone going through mental anguish and reaching out and not having the mental capacity to leave is way more important than defending the actions of a sadist, innocent or not.

Remember, you yourself used the words 'online' and 'internet link'. Don't be so quick to defend the actions of someone online if you aren't willing to defend this person's need for mental help. You don't know either of them 'irl.' So to not see it with a compassionate viewpoint, might very well be the mindset of a sadist, but this isn't the bedroom...and lack of compassion here is more telling about you as a person than the difference between real life and 'online.'

And if you take offense after reading this, it only proves that you are unwilling to see if from the other side.

Aftercare/compassion is necessary, in real life, online, even with a sadist.

alawey​(sub female){(OWNED BY } • Nov 26, 2018

Ok fud u may think that and it is ur right to do so.

Thiugh i will say that there needs to be ppl willing to talk about this. I happens here in BDSM also.

Now sorrys were said and forgiveness was given for any misstep as i read it.

Now this posting may have been more direct than any before. But there have been others including myself who have written on the subject. And its one i strongly believe we need to talk about in both the kink and vanilla worlds

MasterBear​(other butch) • Nov 27, 2018

@Fud


I see your point and I personally agree.

My point was to put out what I can see with that set of behaviors.


I also find that just because I do see the OP as having WNS does not mean that's the end of the conversation.


The OP and others asking why WNS is being tagged is just as important.

Devil's damsel​(sub female){HandsomeDe} • Nov 27, 2018

You are 100% correct and I apologize.

Fudbar​(dom male){❤️❤️❤️} • Nov 27, 2018

Just to be clear here, I think some may be missing the most problematic issue with White Knight Syndrome.

It's all well and good to call out abuse; the problem here is that Phanes literally claimed the right to be "a vanguard..for the voiceless".

The White Knight sees a woman in distress as a helpless damsel that can do nothing but wring her hands and whimper... A helpless, innocent fragile princess. Virgin, Mother, Whore or Crone. Can't see women beyond those tropes.

As it turns out, in this case the 'poor helpless sub' has her own voice, and spoke her own words. Phanes didn't even apologize to her, just Leo.

You don't slay the dragon for the princess, you hand them a fucking sword and encourage them to use it. Enforcing the idea that an abuse victim has no voice and needs strong male protection only adds to the problem.

Talula{Intrigued7} • Nov 27, 2018

Is no one going to mention the breach of trust here??? If I confided in a friend I certainly would not expect to be reading all about it in a public domain for all to comment on. I find it hard to understand what the end game was in this scenario - this was way too personal and I can imagine embarrassing to those actually involved.

Surely Trust is one of the most important aspects of any relationship - vanilla, D/s or even friendship. Without Trust you have no true relationship.

My two cents - for what it’s worth - is to listen and try and be an ear of wisdom - provide advice - it’s up to that person whether they take the advice or not - it’s no ones place to tell any one else’s story bar their own.

Bianca15​(switch female) • Nov 27, 2018

I have no opinion about the original relationship in this post, as I am not there and know nothing about it. However, one thing I have started to learn recently is that abuse is less about the evil-ness of a person (although it CAN be that, of course), and more about two people relating to one another. I think that anyone has the capacity to be abusive when they are coupled with the wrong person (on both sides). Some people just want different enough things out of life that for either person to be happy, the relationship essentially must become abusive for the other person. Combining certain personalities can cause the same thing. When I was younger, I truly believed abusers were easy to identify, because they would be "Evil". Obviously, I avoided those people. But, with age, I've learned that there is this grey area that promotes abuse out of regular people. I hope this comment makes any sense at all, I'm finding it tough to convey this idea this morning.


As a general comment, why the fuck can't I have a partner that will slay the dragon next to me? Wouldn't that be objectively easier, and have a higher chance of success, for both people? Though, I don't totally disagree with the rest of your comment (although, in the case of actual abuse, someone needs to put a stop to it before someone dies, but I'm not convinced that a post on a forum will do that).

Oh, one more thought. I heard a statistic once. On average, abuse victims leave their abusers 7 times before it sticks. That applied to both physical and mental abuse. Emotional abuse is just as possible online as it is anywhere else. Leaving an abuser is HARD, for a great many reasons.

MasterBear​(other butch) • Nov 27, 2018

One of the chilling statistics burned into my memory from nursing school-

Of people that are killed by their significant others 95% have at least one ER visit for injuries related to domestic violence.


For many leaving an abuser isnt just hard it is literally deadly.


Every act of violence reminds the abused of what the abuser is capable of.

Miki • Nov 27, 2018

Hey there Fuddy Buddy! How's tricks?

(Relax all, we're occasional inbox buds)

My, this thread is getting nasty with F bombs and such.. What I have observed thus far overall is Phanes tried to speak out for what he thought was a dangerous situation.. Leo, who apparently is the dark horse in the scenario spoke up and then the "Miss" in the equation.

She addressed it, Phanes apologized to Leo the Dark Horse on here and may have apologized to the Miss in private.

Meanwhile there has been topic creep from the original situation, a guy thinking an online D/s arrangement was getting out of hand (as we already know the guy lists as a Sadist, not just a plain ol' dom) and then the topic slides to domestic abuse, wife-battering and so-forth. The latter is a serious crime but really does not apply here. She does NOT live with the dude, only had a couple "meet -ups" and if the pain level from a sadist is more than any sub or even beginner masochists can take --then she needs to pull the plug on the arrangement, not move forward.

As I already posted, battered wives don't choose their fates while people who identify as subs and masochists get into their respective dynamics because they want it, or think they do.

Wife-beaters are sickos who cause pain and anguish, broken bones and shattered hearts because it solves some problem for them. Doms and sadists in the BDSM world do the flogging, paddling and such.. because the sub/masochist gets off on it. The former is an hideous crime, the latter is sexual play time.

Of course such is the case for me. There likely are those out there who think it is what they desire but find out there's a whole lot more to channeling pain into pleasure than they thought. The risk of entering this type of lifestyle is high. But for the love of Mike (whoever the hell that is in the old saying) Do not confuse subs and masochists with wife-beaters!!

Bianca15​(switch female) • Nov 28, 2018

Okay, I'm really not trying to be rude, and I hope this doesn't come across this way. But it truly scares me a little that I have to say this. Domestic assault is NOT only applicable for people living together. Anyone with an intimate relationship (at least in my state, and I THINK that's pretty consistent across the US anyway) can commit domestic assault. There are also other types of abuse. Emotional, financial, etc. None of these require an actual physical assault (and many can be committed online). Not even all types of abuse are illegal! That doesn't mean that they are not abuse. And just because a person may be a masochist does not mean that they are immune to getting into a relationship that is abusive. Consent is the defining characteristic of a relationship free from abuse, and although I mentioned that I don't know what happened in this relationship and whether this actually applies to this relationship, it sounds like the issue of consent is what brought about the questions about it. So the discussion of abuse seems like a valid one, because it isn't always a black and white issue.