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Emotional Domination

There are 4 main types (and each of them bleed into one another on varying levels) of domination:

Physical
Mental
Emotional
Spiritual

Which one do you prefer to practice and why?
1 year ago. March 5, 2023 at 12:05 AM

 

I would like to shed some light on Discipline and Punishment. The two may interact to some degree but are also quite exclusive in nature. Allow me to explain...........

dis·ci·pline

ˈdisəplən/

1. the practice of training people to obey rules or a code of behavior, using punishment to correct disobedience.

2. a branch of knowledge, typically one studied in higher education.

When we dominants (and I speak loosely about all dominants. Of course some may do it differently) begin training a submissive we are disciplining them. Teaching them how WE want to be served. A good quality dominant, imho, teaches a submissive to their strengths. Promotes their power and abilities. Teaching them to be the best version of themselves. Teaching them how to be disciplined in their character. The point I am making is, submission (or dominance for that matter) is a discipline in and of itself. Like, psychology is a discipline. Martial arts. Or Yoga.

As a dominant, I have disciplined myself to be proficient with the flogger. Of course, that is physical, what of emotional, or mental? I have disciplined myself to be patient, kind, strong in character. Some dominants (or submissives) have natural gifts or are already self-disciplined in certain areas just through upbringing or natural ability of character. But we ALL need to grow in these areas. I am of the belief, and I can find no reason for this belief to not be true, we will always need to grow in our character as a positive nature towards ourselves and dealings with others. I can always be more patient. I can always be more kind.

Now, discipline, in a given dynamic, can be defined from many aspects. I will focus on one definition to make the point relative to this writing. A dominant may make a submissive address them in a certain matter. Or fold their clothes a certain way. Or require a certain amount of positions for varying situations. The reasons for these are various and many and not on topic, so let’s leave that for another writing. A dominant will spend a long time training a submissive on exactly how they would like to see something done. When the submissive doesn’t get it quite right, the dominant disciplines the submissive. Corrects them. Notice I didn’t say punish them? Because it is negligent to punish someone for something they haven’t learned. I will give you another example: As parents, we teach our children right from wrong. Good from bad. What to do and what not to do. Safety from harm. Sometimes, children don’t listen (super surprising I know!!). When we hold their little hands over the stove top at a safe distance and let them feel the heat emanating from it, their eyes get wide and we say, “HOT!” And hope this is teaching them. How many times do some children have to be told not to touch the hot stove top? For some, just once. For others, several times but they listen. For others, you tell them over and over and they still don’t listen, until they sneak a touch on the hot oven and they learn a lesson the hard way. When a child learns, however they learn. They’re best learning capacity is through discipline. Tried and true showing them and letting them know. When a child ignores that discipline, what you have attempted to teach them, they suffer.

pun·ish·ment

ˈpəniSHmənt/

noun

             1. the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense

             2. the penalty inflicted

       As a dominant, if after we have taught you to be disciplined in a given area, you then begin to break that discipline, you will be punished. And of course, the punishment should fit the crime. And the length of period of time we allow for you to learn a given discipline is defined by every dominant individually.

Discipline is what you want. What you would choose even because it trains you. Moulds you. Teaches you. To live up to the quality of standards that are being set before you that meets the needs of those involved within your dynamic. Punishment is not something we want. Yes, we may feel remorseful and willingly accept in that remorse to be punished as necessary. But we certainly wouldn’t want to find ourselves being punished if we had the choice. Example: If you steal something and get caught, we don’t want the punishment. We deserve it, absolutely. But we hoped to get away with the theft. If that wasn’t the case we wouldn’t have even tried. When we’re caught we may be remorseful and accept our punishment. But, we didn’t truly want to be punished. We hoped to get away with it and avoid that punishment. I know of no submissive that wants the disapproval or disappointment of their dom.

Now, this opens a can of worms.......because there are many submissives nowadays who believe that being bratty, pushing buttons of a dominant creates “funishment”. They live to be punished. The motivation for this revolves around only a handful of base sentiments.....1. They enjoy the attention it creates (consider this an insecurity. If your only source of feeling like you’re being paid attention to is from acting out.......there is a larger problem with your rational thinking processing that may need to be addressed. Conversely, I have also seen submissives act out simply because their dominant is failing to notice what needs to be paid attention to. However, I don’t believe this is a proper behavior nonetheless, as adequate communication always seems to suffice). I say this tongue in cheek. Because I know there are plenty of dynamics that find this totally acceptable behavior and is an agreed upon kink. So.....I personally find issue with this. But, it is only me personally, and I am not in any way attempting to judge others dynamic. 2. The acting out is topping from the bottom. Seeking a gratification of punishment by creating the environment by which they know they will be punished. Again, not judging, just pointing out facts that I have seen and counseled.

Back on point, those issues above notwithstanding, punishment is a last resort. Not something we should seek. I can only speak for me, so I do so. If, after I have trained you, taught you self-discipline in any area, should you then choose to go back on that which you have learned after a time, I will begin to punish you yes. But, more than that, I will begin to question why? Why after you have successfully learned have you quit following that which you know is correct? Because it’s no longer that you have an excuse of you didn’t know or understand what I wanted. You learned. You were taught clearly with compassion and patience. So why have you stopped? Because often, the answer is desperately needed to be known. Some submissives will be suffering from stress, or sub-drop after a particularly heavy scene and act out because they needed more aftercare or longer maintenance. Sometimes life is just too much, the stress of work, kids, a dynamic and the personal weight they put on their own shoulders to “measure up” wears them down and often the first to suffer is structure and the protocols therein. In such cases, I can not stress that sometimes punishment, while necessary, may only make matters worse. They are overwhelmed and punishment may only drive them deeper into feeling like not enough. Knowing your submissive and what best motivates them personally is vital in these circumstances.

Discipline and punishment can go hand in hand. But they are also truly exclusive. They have a different and unique focus and quality about them. Confusing the two means only that you don’t completely have defined for yourself your own personal focus and desire.

Especially as a dominant. Knowing why you require a specific action from a submissive (and no, because you can is NOT a very viable reason), and the growth you hope to achieve with that action first for your submissive and then for you and mostly for your dynamics growth. Will help you quantify the focus of your training and to what purpose it serves. No submissive can follow you when you as a dominant are not sure of where you are going and why. Self-discipline in focus, in determination, in direction, in achievement is required. These take time to answer for yourself. Introspection, honesty, integrity of desire all of these things are needed to gain clarity for the purpose you personally are set out to be as a human being.

As a submissive, choosing to surrender is a continued choice. You don’t make it just once and you’re done. Committing to what you trust in your dominants direction is paramount. Regardless of whether you completely understand or not. Because trust also requires an amount of faith. And yes, the dominant is going to get it wrong. Sometimes desperately wrong. Those times dominants need your patience and forgiveness for being human too. You can help yourself and them by choosing to learn. And sticking to your protocols, especially when it's difficult. There is nothing that says submission more than when you're having a tough go (or your dominant is) and you show up maintaining your protocols. Often that grace and devotion of character is what shows the discipline you have learned has value and merit in strengthening your dynamic. And when you’re acting out, ignoring what you’ve been taught, see the punishment for what it is. Their genuine care for your continued peace. Not an attack on not being accepted as you are. We accept you as you are, or you wouldn’t be in our care. Just as a parent loves their child no matter what. You can’t change or take away their love by your actions. So also, dominants do (or certainly should) accept you as you are, no matter what, and express their devotion and love continually through a myriad of things, including punishment. No parent, if they truly love their child, withholds punishment for the wrongs they’ve taught you shouldn’t do. Otherwise, it shows what they’ve taught you doesn’t truly matter. And you won’t respect them ever. This holds true for your dynamic. No dominant should ever withhold their punishment from you. While it may not be pleasant, if it is warranted (and be honest, you know when it is) it is truly the best thing for you.

I hope you find focus in this writing and your peace today.

 

 

Namaste

 

 

Drago and Amethyst

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First Class Dom​(dom male){I'm real } - Thank you very much for sharing this well written informative piece. As a Dom with minimal in person experience, I crave this type of constructive information with the desire for me to be real.

Thanks again
1 year ago
SirsBabyDoll​(sub female){Pizza+☕} - Drago, as you know, I deeply respect you. I appreciate you as well as your deep insights. We have had many, healthy debates on various subjects and even when we take different views, we have always walked away from each other with a deeper respect.

Allow me then, to present a different perspective on your explanation regarding Brats, specifically your aside on point number 1: "If your only source of feeling like you’re being paid attention to is from acting out.......there is a larger problem with your rational thinking processing that may need to be addressed."

The emotion I identify with that statement is "frustration". From my experience, when a Brat brats, it is NOT out of frustration, but of a desire for mischievous play. When we are frustrated with our partner, we get angry and that is NOT bratting.

Your second point is interesting and in my opinion, two opposing thoughts. "Topping from the bottom" is also NOT bratty, unfortunately, too many people associate them together. There is a difference between "Count to three!" (As the Dom thrusts in and out) *Mischievous laugh* "one, two, threefourfive!" *giggle* and "No! Don't stop!". The first is play, the second is wrestling control away from the Dom. The second half of that is how *I* view masochists. It is the masochists that enjoy and seek out the punishments (in the form of pain). Brats do not *USUALLY* seek out pain for pain's sake. Brats tend to be more primal in that regard.

"Why" is ALLLLLWAYS the question to ask, especially with Brats. When a Brat is dysregulated, THAT is when finding out "why" is essential! Have they been triggered? Are they overwhelmed? Are they hungry/angry/lonely (and yes, a person can get lonely even when I'm a room full of people/tired? Has a part of themselves been pushed aside and ignored? Too much "adulting" and not enough moments of innocent joy?

There is a HUGE difference between a playful "*belly laugh* FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE!" and those same words said with venom.

"Why"...just three letters but asking it can convey "I love you" in moments when someone feels so very unloved/unlovable. When those twisted mental tapes start whispering loudly, "why" can shut them off and cause intense moments of vulnerability and intimacy (especially with Brats).
1 year ago
SirsBabyDoll​(sub female){Pizza+☕} - *"Topping from the bottom is not brattING (instead of "bratty")...(autocorrect bit my ass, again)

1 year ago
DaddyDrago{LilAmethys} - SBD,
These are all valid points.

For ME, in the context of the writing it was not directed at Brats per SE, as much as simply bratty behavior. Specifically around being disciplined or punished for lack of discipline.

You are correct. Frustration often seems to be the go to emotion most associate with someone being bratty. Like, someone who is bratty does so because there is an underlying frustration with something and the causation of that frustration manifests as bratty behavior. I do not doubt there are pieces of that there for some at times. More often than not I would say the predominant emotion present for a bratty behavior (specifically when not negotiated. Or as a means of light hearted jesting) is fear. Being afraid of not being enough on some level. Afraid of getting it wrong and being neglected or abused on some level. Afraid of being too much (including with their bratty behavior). The list goes on and on and on here.

I digress.

In the context of the writing my lens was intending to focus on someone being bratty as a means to be punished. Rather than taking punishment as a serious correction being bratty puts a lens on the punishment as simply a non issue.
Example: I had a submissive in a very derisive tone tell me once, "It doe not matter how much you punish me I will not listen!" And they meant it!
Under such a state how then can a negotiated power exchange live? In my lens it cannot. Because one or all parties do not respect the dynamic agreed upon enough to adhere to it.
Of course express how you feel. Absolutely. Expressing how you feel does not mean you get the pass for being accountable for your actions.

As to the second point. What one individual believes is wrestling control away from a dominant is unique to them yes? I mean, I know plenty of dominants I admire that allow things I would not feel comfortable with. And honestly, vice versa. Amethyst is quite cheeky in her own way. And she ABSOLUTELY feels strongly about things. But she would NEVER be disrespectful.
I believe that is what you are pointing to if I am reading it correctly?
I am crystal clear with Amethyst. She is 100% encouraged to express how she feels. I want all of her. As she is. I am also clear that if she is afraid of something I am not beholden to her fear. In plain fact it is my role to ensure her fear has no solid footing to wreak any leverage in our dynamic. Meaning, while she may prefer a way for me to navigate her in her fear to make her feel 'safe', I will more often than not follow what I believe is honest and correct.
Example:
Amethyst is afraid of being abandoned. This manifests in 1000s of ways. One way it shows up is in the way she would prefer I talk to her when she is triggered. Now, I am never cruel for the sake of being cruel. I am intentionally and deliberately gracious but also direct. I will comfort her, but I will do so with honesty. I will acknowledge the elephant in the room......she hates this. Why? Because she FEELS I am judging her which will lead to me abandoning her. No matter how much I reassure her that is not honest and has NEVER happened she still has her fear.
I do not allow her fear to breathe life into our dynamic. I kill it with love, patience and honesty. All of which she hates when she is triggered. She does not like what she sees let alone that I see it. It's just too vulnerable and exposing. And truly, I understand it completely. I have my own things that I feel that way around. I feel we all do. But just as I do not get to transfer my fears onto her or anyone else, so also I will not own it take responsibility for her fears that want to shift me from keeping our dynamic focused on health and light. Again, that does not mean she cannot feel afraid. I am not interested in trying to change how she feels. I am, however interested in changing how she reacts to her fear. Helping her to be gracious to herself. Encouraging her to not allow her emotions to choose for her what to believe. Because elets be honest, most of that was born from childhood wounds or past relationships at the very worse. Ones where they told her she was not allowed to do xyz or she would be abandoned. Told to be perfect. Or guilted into doing what another wanted her to do for the sake of 'keeping' the relationship. All of which feeds the fear.
Am I responsible to play by her fears rules? Should I allow her, in her fear, to dictate to me how I should show up to love her? Or keep our relationship safe and secure?
I would dare say no on every level.
Again, it's not about shame. Or even control on my part. It is about reassurance. Consistent, steady guidance that reminds her while she may feel afraid, she is safe.
As you stated, dysregulation.
I can empathize with her plight. But I absolutely should not allow her in that dysregulation to call the shots and make any decisions. It would only feed the monster.
That is what I speak of when I say topping from the bottom. Wanting things to go a specific way to feed the fear. Or desiring a specific outcome that is not in line with what I as a dominant am leading her to.
Including even the silly bantering or playful jesting. Because that can be just as much a mechanism to hide behind that is used to manipulate a different outcome.
Now, in EVERY case or circumstance? Of course not. But often enough that the term 'topping from the bottom' is included in the discussion on a frequent enough basis that it bears paying attention to. There are some merits here.
I personally know a slave who uses joking around, cutting up, witty banter as a way to connect with people and does so because she cannot find the safety within herself to simply allow someone to make a decision she would ever really trust. It is her way of trying to soothe herself.
Is this wrong? No. Again, imagine being her dominant and trying to lead her. She honestly and truly desires with every fiber of her being to be lead. But her fears keep her from following. If you were her dominant how would you navigate that? On one hand you could discipline her, patiently teach her. But she will be too afraid to ever really integrate the pieces that would bring her honest support. On the other hand you could discipline her. Which she only will make light of because the existence of her fear that presses on her inability to not feel as if she is failing and is going to be quit on is way too rela and she would rather not face that so she jokes and laughs. This same slave wonders why she cannot hold a healthy relationship.
Is she to blame for something? Goodness no!!! She is human. Allowed to navigate whatever she needs to, however she needs to. And no one can make her do anything she is uncomfortable doing. Even if that thing is good for her.
This, is the point of that second point. Topping from the bottom is any action that seeks to wrestle authority from the one responsible for leading the dynamic down a healthy path. Even if that action is frivolity as a coping mechanism. Or brattiness. Or lashing out. Or projection. Or whatever. As you so pointedly remarked, the why is ALWAYS the thing needing to be recognized. It is almost always deeper than that they are tired, or hungry, or upset. Those are easy to spot and navigate. It's the moments where you do not want to follow because it is too uncomfortable so you try to change the course by manipulating with whatever your me hnism of choice is.
And no, I do not believe most even do this consciously. I believe many are altogether unawares.

Often asking why is lost on the person that is triggered. Or in their pain. Or in their wound. Asking why will oftentimes only exasperate the individual. Because usually if they knew why they would work at navigating those spaces healthier for themselves and by extension then their relationship.

It is why in point one I express it is much more worthwhile and productive to communicate using our voices. Talking about it. Even if you do not know the why expressing it, getting it out, externally processing can be quite liberating. Especially in a judgement free space. As well as the added benefit that it helps the dominant see the struggle the submissive is navigating. It can nurture empathy but also show the dominant where they get to be the best support. Or how best to be the immovable rock.

The playful bantering is never at odds with being disciplined or punished except when it crosses the line into disrespect. Which, as stated previously, is determined solely by the individual.

My hope for this writing is that it draws attention to the reality that often what seems like 'fun' and simple frivolity can just be a mask for another person's pain. A dominant does not get the luxury of not being aware that that may be the reality and they need to address it.

It is not at all about shaming ANYONE and the way they choose to do their dynamics. Being a Vrat is fine if that's what anyone choose to do and desires to show up in that fashion. Everyone has what works for them. This writing does not question that or negate that reality. Nor does it make being a brat wrong. It simply points out that many choices to behave in a bratty way can be laced with trauma and pain that hinders discipline as the tool it is for teaching the art of following.
1 year ago
SirsBabyDoll​(sub female){Pizza+☕} - I understand what you are saying and I agree, whole heartdly. Yes, jokes and flippant attitudes are ABSOLUTELY an avoidant mechanism! Does that mean that they are intentionally being a brat to seek attention? I do not believe so. IN THAT MOMENT, they are in survival mode. Drowning in a sea of feelings, desperately trying to not sink under the water. The problem is....we don't have *accurate* labels for the feelings we are feeling. I can't TELL you how many times I screamed, "I DON'T KNOW WHAT IM FEELING! I JUST AM!!". In those moments, we stop being the ever hated "Brats". It's not INTENTIONAL, purposeful disrespect that is associated with Brats. It's a PTSD storm.

In your original post, as you spoke about Brats and their motivations, you used a definitive statement, "they live to be punished". I disagree. I would say that Brats live for acceptance. We live for stability. We live for constancy.

As a carpenter you have probably set up a ladder and then shook it to ensure it is stable before climbing it, correct? In this metaphore, the Dom is the ladder, the shaking is the bratty behavior, and climbing it...is the submission. You take those first steps and you bounce up and down to ensure, once again, that it's secure. You take a few more steps and you feel that rush. Your heart starts to beat a little faster and you start to be more careful. Each step is a deepening of connection, exposing your vulnerability.

You yourself probably don't even think about it anymore but think back to your beginning days of servitude in the Leather community. You had those moments of "shaking the ladder". It was the consistency that earned your respect and thus, your submission. It didn't matter that you hated the activity, it was the respect you held of the Dominant that reassured you which allowed you to find the courage to try. You were shaking in your boots the whole time though.

I had written a whole bunch more but exhaustion and my cold medicine is affecting me, jumbling my thoughts, and I can't stay focused. I'm going to have to back out for now until I can speak from my core. Goodnight.
1 year ago
DaddyDrago{LilAmethys} - We are expressing similarly around the same salient point. We are not truly at odds.
The statement of 'they live to be punished' again is not directed at any subsection of submissive, in this conversation particularly, Brats as brought up by you as a focus. It is directed at others however they directly identify as they that seek to use manipulation or lashing out as a means to keep themselves from actually learning. If any individual lives in rebellion against a set of rules that are meant to and would bring them peace, focus, or contentment we would as a society label them as anti social. In extreme cases we would label them as sociopaths. Now, clinical psychopathy needs to be addressed by professionals and not left to the untrained novice to be sure. But it does not take special training to witness someone acting out to deflect their pain.
Are they allowed? OF COURSE!!!!
Goodness, being human is a plight we all suffer under!! I would never want to even insinuate that others in their traumas are not allowed to be where they are. Or even act out however makes them feel safe.
Again, within the context of the writing, we are speaking of a negotiated and agreed upon relationship where one (or more) leads and one follows. Is it following if the submissive is seeking to wrestle leadership from the dominant? Is it following if the actions of the submissive unintentionally or not are seeking to subvert the direction of the discipline or punishment? We can discuss how that is just what the dominant gets to navigate with this particular submissive because that is just how they navigate. That is fair.
This writing is pointing to how too many who sign up to be led do not wish to follow. And while on many levels dominance is about wrestling control from a submissive, imagine being in the dominant position and having to do that all the time? Add to that the question, Why should I have to wrestle from you something you committed to surrendering? Now, let's not get mired down in the trust conversation. Yes, trust needs to be earned repeatedly and over and over. That is honest. All things being equal the writing assumes that trust has been earned on a level where the submissive finds themselves within the leadership of the dominant and is willing at least in principle to follow.
The writing does not make any argument against the reality that the dominant will push against the submissives emotional limits. Yes, doing so is a part of being dominant. Absolutely. The point made in the writing (at least in the lens with which I wrote it) is that at some point the submissive is held accountable for their actions that are detonating their willingness and agreed upon desire to follow. Including but not limited to curtailing the behavior that precipitates the resistance.
While your point of PTSD is honest and in most cases real from the trauma. The question still is begged, whose responsibility is it to navigate those traumas?
There is an honesty that the dominant did sign up for this. True. They accepted the role of leading someone that in many cases will resist leadership. That still does not negate the reality of culpability on the part of the submissive for their actions.
Yes, as you point to in your ladder analogy, a submissive will always test a dominant. Oftentimes truly unawares they are doing so. We ALL want to feel safe, and discovering whether we are or not is important to our well-being on every level. Here is the continuance of the honesty around this however......what is not mentioned is the ultimate outcome of such push back. And NO, this is NOT in every case......but it is in too many cases and hence the discussion needs to be had.
The outcome of too many instances of push back is a realization that the submissive will NEVER feel safe. That the lashing out and seeking for stability will NEVER be met.
You know why?
Because that is an inside job. It is not something someone will find externally. No one will be able to create, or bequeath someone peace. That comes through hard work on the individuals part. Ask me how I know! I have some VERY deep wounds that have been traumatic in my life. Some that have caused me to fear so deeply that I felt as if I could not go on. That I was going to be drowned by the fear, overcome with no escape. I have searched high and low in a multitude of things, including BDSM, to bring me peace within myself. It is not external. Oh, others can support. Others can help. Others can hold a space while we navigate such things. Others can be a great comfort IF WE ALLOW THEM. Others can be a massive encouragement. A cheerleader of sorts. But NO ONE will EVER be able to convince you to do it for yourself. NO ONE will EVER be able to say just the right thing to conquer those demons. Guaranteed. Not even, by the way, a licensed professional therapist. Therapists guide us to our peace. They cannot create it. They focus us. They see our pains and give us tools to navigate the dark spaces. But WE must use the tools. It is our peace and we must desire to work for it.

Now, let's take a step back into a dynamic. Where the dominant is leading and the submissive is encouraged to follow. The submissive MUST want to follow all on their own. They must desire to find peace, because certainly if they do not they will not. All the 'wrestling from you' a dominant could do means zero if the submissives intentions are to follow their fear. Unbeknownst to the submissive or not, their actions are an obvious indicator of their fear. Which, as we have discussed, is not the dominants responsibility to be under control or sway by. After the dominant has encouraged, punished, pushed for the submissive to surrender to healing in a given area, and the submissive refuses, at what point should the dominant admit the submissive does not want to be led? As they say, the first step is admitting there is a problem.
And yes, each individual gets to define for themselves where their limit is.

Story time:

Myself personally and with others dominants I regard as very good, there has been exhaustive resources, time, energy, devotion towards a submissive that neither cared to grow/learn or find their peace or truly wanted to surrender. It puts us dominants in a very peculiar place. We do not want to give up on our responsibilities. We take them quite seriously. We do not want to quit, it is not in our make up to do so. At what point should one realize you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink? Add to that the confusion of a submissive that proclaims with their lips a desire to follow but actions that show clearly otherwise. When is it acceptable to admit the issue is not within the dominants leadership? At what point do we say the dominant has shown themselves clearly trustworthy but the submissive refuses to trust? I can speak wholeheartedly for myself, I have been in relationships where I was downright manipulated and abused. Where there was no give and all take. I do not say that lightly. I do not express that to throw shade on anyone, that's not the point. The point is, I stayed in circumstances with multiple differing partners where I took the 'abuse' in the name of showing myself trustworthy. In the name of being secure, steadfast, consistent, immovable, accepting and the emotional turmoil the other was in would not cessate as a result of one thing......their choice. They did not want to face, or admit their resistance and unwillingness. It had ZERO to do with me. I did all I could and all I could do was not enough for them.

Well, then maybe you two were not a good fit.
That is fair. Maybe my form of dominance would not speak to them and encourage them. Or comfort them to the extent that they felt safe enough to navigate those fears within them.

I believe in this statement wholeheartedly............

The art of dominance is in the inspiration of submission.

You know what that means?
It means being dominant is more than what you command. Expect. Or even believe.
It is about can you authentically draw from another their willingness to surrender by simply being yourself? No tricks. No ploys. No structure. No rules. No expectations. Just you. Because THAT is dominance. Being so fucking tuned into yourself, on your mission and purpose that others want to follow. Others see the value in you just by you showing up as yourself.

It is fair not everyone finds value in the same things.
However, I would contend we all find value in similar things.

Grace.
Kindness.
Consistency.
Character.
Strength.
Purpose.
Focus.
Intention.
Belief.
Groundedness (is that a word?)
Security.

I believe we ALL find comfort and support in these things.
If a dominant embodies these things and a submissive will still not follow because they are too afraid to trust in the integrity of the dominant where do we go from there?

THAT is the point of the passage in question.

You can feel all the things you need to in your fear, panic, rage, insecurity, doubt but you are not given free reign in those feelings to not do what is right for you. You do not get the right to neglect your word and not follow. If you agreed to, do it. Period.
Sadly, too many (no not all) use their lashing out (unconscious or not) as a way to manipulate, coerce, shift, realign, deflect from following. It presses them into a corner where they feel threatened.
Why?
Because it means admitting they feel unsafe within themselves. They desperately want someone to be stronger than their fear and lead them capably. But oftentimes their fear screams so loudly they cannot feel safe enough to follow.
Again, How long does a dominant allow this before it is too long?
I would wager to say that when a dominant sees this if they do not nip it in the bud immediately the precedence that they will set will be FAR worse.
Hence why I express allowing someone from their pain to lash out (if you read that as being bratty so be it but there are MANY ways to lash out of one's pain that. While you may define that as bratty behavior, I simply see that as unhealthy) and leave it unchecked creates an instant power imbalance in favor of the submissive. Which is why the submissive wanted a dominant in the first place, to take from them the control.
So, if the dominant comes in, sets up shop, begins disciplining the submissive to create peace, focus and harmony for that submissive and the submissive will not follow regardless of the punishment it is absolutely necessary to point this out as unhealthy. It is absolutely vital to encourage the submissive to check themselves and hold themselves accountable to the very thing they expressed desire for. Leadership.

Which is why I express that being bratty (not the same thing as identifying as a Brat) around being disciplined (disciplined in the context of the writing is being trained. Think martial arts which is a discipline) which then creates a necessity for punishment yet only produces an even deeper unyielding and triggers an even stronger fear response instead of surrender is something that needs to be addressed. The evidence is in the behavior. Yes, it is in the why of the behavior. The behavior however shows the dominant the why. The behavior is unnecessarily resistive. It does not communicate the fear adequately instead it actually is an attempt to subvert the dominants lens from seeing the fear.
It is like watching someone purport they are trustworthy. All they ever speak of is how they can be trusted and how trustworthy they are. Most people recognize that language for what it is.....insecurity. If you have to try to convince someone you are ok, good, safe, where you are, you are obviously not feeling ok, good, or safe.
Same thing with bratty behavior. Watch a child. When they lash out with brattiness it is obvious they are scared. Again, are they allowed? OF COURSE. A child USUALLY can be comforted. Usually they can be consoled and they realize they are safe.
With us adults who have traumas from our past this is not often the reality. No matter how much an individual consoles us. Or comforts us. Or reassures us we do not believe them. We have been burned too many times in the past. So we continue down this path of resistance, our dynamics break apart and we shift the blame onto the other person stating, "They could not handle us", or, "They could not hold us safely." Oftentimes when this is not true at all. The line of thinking just keeps us safe from having to trust (or so we believe we are safe, when we still do not feel so). Keeps us from ever truly connecting, because damn it it's just too scary. We do not accept the issue is with us. We do not want to admit we are so scared and do not know where to turn. We hope someone will love us in our fear. They will keep us. Comfort us and protect us. All the while someone is attempting to do so we will not let them in. Which is the ultimate point of the writing.

If as a submissive you want to be led. Follow. Because following is a verb. It is in action. It requires a continued, intentional, deliberate choice. Even when, or especially when you are scared to death. It is easy to follow when the sun is shining. But when the rubber meets the road and we are scared to death what we do in those moments matter the most. They show us to either be someone that is willing to allow discipline to support us to be a better version of ourselves or we resist out of fear and detonate our own selves.

The choice is OURS.

It has NOTHING to do with identifying as a Brat. It is about being human. Having a human experience and owning our responsibility for our own journeys.

1 year ago
SirsBabyDoll​(sub female){Pizza+☕} - If, as you said, "It is about being human having a human experience and owning our responsibility for our own journey", then is there a better way to describe it than "being bratty"? In the BDSM community (and most assuredly THIS particular corner of the community), any behavior that isn't following the "meak, demure, supple, compliant, slave" ideal, is viewed in the negative. It's unfair, I just, and hurtful. Submissive berate themselves over their "bratty behavior" and are quick to quantify themselves by ensuring that people don't associate them with "Brats"..."I was wrong and disobeyed my master but I'm NOT a brat!". Phrases like these are said with diatain. Brats are treated like lepers.

Are we accountable for our actions? Absolutely! Everyone is (including Dominants). But who is hated SIMPLY because their kink doesn't LOOK like submission? Brats.

As I was driving home from dropping my son off, I had an image in my head of a circus performer. This performer is strapped to those giant safety bands that stretch (I can't think of anything but giant elastic bands). Anyways, the bands provide a boundary for the person bouncing and flipping.

Brats operate within a wider pen of boundaries. We still want them, need them even. If they are too narrow, we have to cut off a piece of ourselves just to keep the dynamic. Too wide, and we can't feel the safety of the boundaries. If the boundary lines are too malleable, too flimsy, we break through them. Too ridges, we hurt ourselves. We need to be able to see and feel those boundaries, to reassure ourselves that they are still there (consistency) and we ALSO need to know that those boundaries won't hurt us when our clutzy asses trip over them and fall on our faces.

Should people accept abuse? No. Define that abuse though. If a person has a particular ideal of submission and then they encounter someone who has a more, shall we say, "relaxed" idea of what submission looks like, who is right? Neither...and both. Just because a brat mouths off to their dominant, doesn't mean that it's abuse. Just because a brat finds a loophole in a command doesn't mean it's manipulation. Maybe if the receiver views getting flipped the bird as disrespect, then yes, it is disrespect...for the receiver.

Should it be acceptable for someone who claims to be a Brat to mouth off and be unnecessarily argumentative with someone they are NOT in a dynamic with in such a way that they are attacking the PERSON (verses a debate point)? HELL NO! I find that repulsive and infuriating! I can't STAND people like that!!! Just because you call yourself a Brat doesn't give you free reign to be a cunt to everyone and expect your behavior to be excused!

But within a dynamic, what is viewed from the outside as disrespectful behavior, might not be, and yet so many people judge our behaviors and US as "not being true submissives". What happens when a Brat finally decides to "sign on the dotted line" and offer our submission to someone? We sink so far into our submission that we OFTEN get told (I know I've been told this on multiple occasions), that we aren't very bratty at all. Once, I was even told that they didn't think I WAS a Brat.

No one should accept abuse, however, quite often that "abuse" is labeled as "being a brat/being bratty" and it's an inaccurate statement.

As an example from the vanilla world, "Retard/retarded" is used to mean someone is stupid. Well, how do the people who HAVE mental retardation feel when they hear that word? I can tell you. That word is NEVER said with anything but the feeling of disgust, and in turn, people who HAVE mental retardation are treated as "less than". The same venom and disgust that is conveyed by the speaker when they utter that word, is the SAME venom and disgust when people utter the word "Brat".

So, if someone is talking about submissives who are being disrespectful and argumentative, then THAT is the correct label for the behavior. That is the core of what is going on. If labeling fear as "anger" is inaccurate, then so too is labeling disrespect, manipulation, abuse, etc as "Brats/bratty".

I can tell you, the association hurts.
1 year ago
SirsBabyDoll​(sub female){Pizza+☕} - As an aside...I have TOTALLY missed our long discussions!!!!!
1 year ago
DaddyDrago{LilAmethys} - Welcome to being human!

While words have meaning and import they also are just that.....words.
How we receive those words matters, especially to us, yes. So also does the intent of the expressionist.

We each have our own triggers. It seems here that the words being bratty are yours.
No judgement, sincerely, you are allowed and encouraged to express. But with the same permission with which you are given so also does anyone have in their right to express however.
The intent is what matters.
While I seek to be inclusive and understanding I do not do so beyond my own values regardless of what another may feel from my expression.
Example:
I could have just as easily used the words bitchiness. Or cruel. Or disrespectful. Or rude. Or any other term. In any other expression I could have found just as much kick back from anyone who felt attacked for my use of a term. Who is correct?
Neither? Both?
The honesty is we can never say or do something that will not on some level offend someone. In my lens, anyone who makes a stand on a truth will always find resistance and will offend someone. That is the price for standing on the truth. So be it.
Is it my heart to maliciously harm someone? Of course not. But I also accept that I will, unintentionally.

I am sorry your experience with the words brat, brattiness, bratting out or any derivative thereof has been reflected back by others towards you in a cruel sense. That is quite unfair and uncalled for to be sure!
And I get it. On a personal level I have been called things for being the type of dominant that I am that are cruel, hurtful and downright vicious.
In the end, what another chooses to call me from their pain speaks more about them and a whole lot less about who I actually am. Because the honesty is none of them knew me nor ever really will because they choose not to take the time to do so.....for whatever reason.

I do not apologize for my language in the writing. I meant exactly what I said. Just from the lens I meant it from which was not an attack on Brats as a type of submissive (in fact no where in the writing did I point to a specific type of submissive). As I have discussed at length I meant something specifically else. I understand that may have been received by you as an attack. Or may have triggered something within you. Of course I do not want that for you. Sincerely. As was discussed at length the question is not what someone said that triggered you as much as why is that trigger there within you to be pressed? Because we each will never be able to manage another's expression or how someone presses on those tender spots within us, but we certainly can navigate our own wound to take back the power we are handing over in our trigger.
When we have such a violent response to someone's expression and we feel some kind of way it is not anyone else's responsibility to navigate those feelings but ourselves.
I do NOT say that to be dismissive of your feelings. Actually, honestly quite the opposite. I hate to see others hurting. Genuinely. I do not want others fear and pain to wreak havoc on them. I sincerely want yours and everyone else's peace. I know, however, that is not mine to give.
How can I support it? How can I encourage it? Those are all questions I ask myself repeatedly. In this instance it's by not hiding from what is honest. By expressing compassion and understanding without being held captive by another's trigger. I know you have quite often felt ostracized, ridiculed, singled out, belittled, demeaned for your expressions, beliefs or desires. I know it has been a challenge for you to find your voice and not back down or away from that which you feel is what you need. I honor and respect that. I sympathize with your struggle in an honest way. I resonate on many of those levels just from my station.
And I am sorry for your pain and consternation.
As you well know I respect you and your process however that looks for you and I am open to supporting you as best as I can. Accepting that the way in which I offer my support may seem cruel or dismissive to you, the intention from me is not diminished nonetheless.

In your expressions I hear your pain. The pain of not being heard. Of being dismissed or disregarded. The pain of being misunderstood or not met. The pain of not being received or accepted. The pain of being unique and different. Of that, I know something about.
And I want to reassure you that in no way am I doing that to you or anyone else that identifies as a Brat or has bratty behavior. Certainly not intentionally.

Should you desire to discuss this tender matter further please know I always have a sympathetic ear with no judgement of you, your pain, or your fears.

1 year ago

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