Why I don't use safewords

Why I don't use safewords

Arach • Jan 25, 2021

Yea, I knew that would get you.
Actually I will be glad to use them if my partner wishes, but I do not feel they are particularly necessary, because I listen.
It is vastly important to me to listen, to feel what is going on with my partner, to observe her reaction. (Yea, I am a het cismale but it works for all) I check fingernails, I watch her movements, and if she calls me, I go close and we talk. I ask if she is ok. If she is enjoying herself. I Observe and live off of erotic joy. Would I like to whip my partner till she bleeds? FUCK YEA!!! but only if it makes her want to be unbound just enough to please my cock. Passion is my food.
Now there is one central reason for safewords. They substitute for "No" "Please stop" "I can't stand this" so those words and phrases can be uttered AND BE IGNORED! (Oh cruel and uncaring Master.) They are part of a scene "One of the subdivisions of a play: such as a division of an act presenting continuous action in one place." But in my mind, outside of that scene structure, they are not necessary. A simple "wait" is all that is needed for we are there for mutual joy.

This takes me to a slightly different element of my BDSM life. Doms Make Mistakes! I went to a single tail demo which was quite informative. It was enjoyable up until the point where we all got up to practice where I made a minor mis-strike and immediately apologized. The leader of the Demo came over to me and said that a Dominant never apologizes. He immediately lost all my respect. If I can not admit a mistake to my partner, how can she have respect for me? We might, with negotiation and mutual agreement PLAY that way. But in a scene, where we each play roles that mutually amuse us.
If I loose the understanding that everyone in this relationship for which, as a Master, I am responsible, are of equal value worthy of equal respect, I am no longer a Master.

MissBonnie​(dom female){oz} • Jan 25, 2021

Just playing devil advocate here since its a rather blanket statement rather than a question (as I do understand what your intention was) but what about the subs mental health? Often the state of the mind cant be judged by a Dominant ...more so if they don't know eachother or are new to each other. Mental health conditions or bad triggers are another factor when safewords are needed. Does it actually hurt to have a verbal and non verbal safeword if you are NOT TPE? Mental health issue are moer common nowdays, than they are not.

Also the safeword is for the Dom/me too! its NOT just a submissive thing! I used to casually play with a "brat" there had been many a time when I simply just wasnt in the mood for it and it was me calling it first rather than him! sometimes safewords aren't about physical or body driven limits but are a more a holistic approach.

I currently do not use one with my primary but we also have 24 years of shared play under our whip. ..but saying that I do still remember our safeword/s

Re: Why I don't use safewords

DrWakko • Jan 25, 2021

By most peoples definition that is a safeword. Anything that causes a scene to pause and stop is a safe word. Just because you aren't using the stop light system doesn't mean you aren't using a safeword.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Jan 25, 2021

Check in and ask. Me, I know psychology. And personally, I don't use safe words when things are happening.

It's always important to remind people that they have a choice. And to let them know what they're getting into. I stay on top of this. Know both sides. Got a pet online actually. Which is JUST as important as real life. People will have doubt and trust issues no matter the location. Online can actually be more dangerous actually. Some people lose sight of reality and get desperate for fun which leads to danger. Provided this is kept in mind, easily resolved. The person has to come before the character. It makes fun rolepley happen faster too. If you're not a crutch, I'm not a crutch. All of me matters. But all of you matters too.

I didn't get them comfortable being naked with their avatar on Second Life by going "Safe words". No, proper communication has to be established first and foremost. They're very very shy and only know one or two people, so I'm going to get them to meet more people. Know someone that is very giving and understanding, so it's a good "first contact" scenario. Help them build up their confidence for working up to be social on their own.

Now, me, personally, don't need safe words. But where my sub on Second Life is concerned, due to the amount of issues they have, of which they readily admit too, I'm going to make it a point to give them that option if they ever feel under mental duress. But it has to be "mental duress" and not an excuse for discomfort. It's important to be very aware of the difference.

See, when we talk about comfort/discomfort, when people ACTUALLY explore what's uncomfortable, it can be enjoyed. Been a fair bit of that happening as it is. So that's good.

But mental duress is a very different matter. That's more then being a "bit scared". It's when you're head is spinning and your throat is tight. As an example.

Our feelings can also betray us though. Sometimes, you simply have to suffer through it to get stronger. But if there's any situations where that's the only way forward, then "full and fair warning". Depending on the situation, you can provide the option. But if someone is so full of fear that it reaches a point that they're an evasive coward which fuels depression an suicidal tendencies, then it may even be best to hurt them.

I actually got my old owner out of a cage they put themselves in once. I called them weak. Said they were looking for an easy fix. And walked away and sat on the couch. They then got out of that cage and sat on the couch and we started talking. Get someone angry and they stop wallowing. Same method can even be used with someone that is suicidal. Give them a distraction. Something to focus on. A reason to try and find answers. Give them that goal.

Answers is all that keeps us sane. A safe word can stop a situation, even if only for a moment. Can be useful. But without answers? Well, without that you'll never recover when you're under mental duress. People like to think they can just have their own way. But do they really? Or do they just tell themselves they do then get depressed and suicidal because they were close minded and selfish?

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Feb 14, 2021

Safewords as with many aspects of BDSM are always a topic of hot debate.

Tops/Doms who declare to me that they don't use safewords are basically saying that they trust themselves 'that much' that they won't need them. However, they are missing the critical part of 'knowing me' and their assumption is that they will comprehend every aspect of me in a scene, which tells me to be wary.

Before I play with someone or start a relationship, I share a lot of information. I know how I react and my stages of cognizance during play. I know how and when I can articulate myself and when I go nonverbal. And even with my thorough discussion and negotiation, I would never ever allow anyone to tell me we can't use a safeword (or distress indicator action) during play.

Further, don't forget that people who engage in light BDSM probably do not need a safe word or action. They play a little, talk a little, fuck a little, play some more and it's all great fun. However, those who engage in heavy play or extremes should be very careful on this point. The deeper and more intense you play, the deeper and more intense your bottoms reactions and spacing. (top space or bottom space)

The other point is that people who are in long term relationships have learned each other in-depth. They have crossed over to a level where safewords and even hard limits might not be needed. Because one can always tell when the other is in distress of any kind. They also share what is off-limits thus certain hard limits cease to exist. These are the folks who say they have no limits, but in truth, their limits have just vanished and will never come up between them.
One will never ask the other anything that they can't do. So rather than list a ridiculous number of off-the-table actions, they say they have no limits.

I don't wish to spiral this thread into a limits debate, also useless. But it is important to know that what a newbie needs to employ and what a long time play arrangement needs to worry about are vastly different. If you are going to advise against hard limits or safewords etc you should consider who you are advising.

I can tell you that my levels and abilities in this life have changed over my many years. Anyone who approaches me with the declaration that they don't use safewords is free to think that way, but all I see in front of me is someone whose hubris could hurt us both.

H*

Taramafor​(sub male) • Feb 24, 2021

See, here's the thing. You're clear as day to me. That is, your personality type is. I don't need your life story. I'm also not a mind reader.

The method I use can be trusted. Not "me". The method itself. Don't trust in "people". Trust in the method. It's not specific to "a" person. It's a method that applies with everyone, regardless of what the other person is like. Some things work on everyone. Learning this method requires a brain. Some people lack those and don't consider the possibility and only see their own viewpoint alone. Now, I can seem to give this impression at times. But this is where proof/logic/evidence factors in (I am always told I'm right once the full story is obtained. To be clear). And I actually invite and even encourage people to prove me wrong.

The method does NOT consist of going "should", "you" or "we". It does NOT consist of acting like you're entitled to have your way alone. There are times I do NOT leave people alone. There are times I do NOT accept no for an answer, because it is based on ignorance and lack of awareness. As does the turned backs. No one actually wants to be an idiot. Assumptions means people can THINK they're right. But really, what if they're just an idiot?

If someone leaves after assuming the worst and didn't get the full story, this says something about them. Maybe they say "leave me alone". I don't ignore it. But I do pursue. Suddenly we're focusing on happiness. That is how effective the method is. And this works even in code black situations. Such as being threatened out of the house. Psst. I turn that into sex. Not kidding. Did happen once. Being understanding does that.

The catch 22 here is that a lot of people can THINK they know what they're doing. I know I can trust my ability and talent 100% and that it works without fail. Because I don't just know "one" person. I know "multiple". Each in an understanding, caring and even loving and intimate fashion. And each person is different from each other. I use the same method on everyone. But how easy/difficult things are depends on the assumptions the other person makes and how much doubt (and thus mistrust) they have. It's the old "clear up irrational fear" thing. You are that person that assumes the worst if you have doubts that lead to trust issues.

I'll be making a thread about the pattern. But for now consider this. How do you get the closed minded to be open minded? There's the trick to it. Do it with the most closed minded people ever and everything after that is child's play (hence why everyone else is easier to work with). Had to do it earlier actually. Got to consider the possibility, you know.

DrWakko • Feb 24, 2021

The only way I see never having to use a “safe word” is after each strike/impact you check in on the person.

The only way one can not “safe word” out of a scene is if you both agreed on a stopping point. Anytime the scene ends early is because of a “safe word/action/noise”.

I don’t care who you are or how much experience you have. Things happens. Falls land wrong, wax hits too hot or in the wrong spot, you accidentally cut a person, you stab yourself, etc and you have to stop or pause a scene. Even a DM at a club can stop your scene for you.

There are always safewords or safe actions put into place just in case. I know people who have safewords for CNC scenes.

Virginie​(sub female){lcpw} • Feb 24, 2021

quote" Taramafor
If someone leaves after assuming the worst and didn't get the full story, this says something about them. Maybe they say "leave me alone". I don't ignore it. But I do pursue. Suddenly we're focusing on happiness. That is how effective the method is. And this works even in code black situations. Such as being threatened out of the house. Psst. I turn that into sex. Not kidding. Did happen once. Being understanding does that.



What if...I know, crazy, irrational, fearful thinking here but humor me- what if they MEAN leave me alone, or get out of my house, and then YOU listen and stop there? Might that ending result in the other person having less whacky trust issues? You know one day, after they've opened their eyes, gone for the restraining order (that I'm guessing you violate) and they're giving their grand jury testimony... they won't have to reflect, at least, on the horror of having given into your boundary bullying ways the first one, two-10 times?
I don't know that this has to do with safe words so much as a safe life when you give 'code black situation' examples of your behavior. Also thank you- I wish more people with such interesting ideas would stand up and identify themselves.

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Feb 24, 2021

Virginie it is absolutely boundary bullying. Well spotted.

They do us a favor insomuch that we call it off and they all but break their necks proving us right in our choice.

If there is one golden rule in all of this it is to respect the right of others to consent and also to withdraw that consent as they wish.

This guy has said repeatedly on many many posts that he does not do that. Why one would think that makes them look special or above average I cannot imagine.

Bullies are bullies are bullies and they do not deserve our respect or trust.
Submissives and slaves do not now or ever have to tolerate bullies.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Feb 25, 2021

This. 100% this. Nail. Head. This is even MORE important then any safe word. What if someone can handle more, or doesn't speak up knowing they could? Each and every moment is a check in moment with me.

Let's face it. Some people are going to be difficult because they act like a location/place is an excuse to stop seeing people as people. "Fun fun fun". But I'll be damned if people make excuses to avoid responsibility. Desire for honesty and awareness is too strong. Location/environment is never an excuse.

Sometimes it's safe to stop. Other times it can be more danger. Judgement call. Can you trust it?

If you don't have anything to compare it too... How do you know which is safer? The only way is to do it both ways. Without that there is no comparison. There is such a thing as "too safe" as well as too dangerous. The former can fuel the later. Being sheltered all your life leads to not being able to handle more. Then you can be a danger to yourself and people around you.


First of all, they ALREADY had wacky trust issues.

Second, they TRUST me and state as such. And tell me my judgement can be trusted over theirs.

This is because I keep them safe and give them full and fair warning. Did you consider this before fearing the worst of the situation?

You only prove my point. That mistrustful people like you act like you're entitled to have your way alone. Maybe, and humor me here, maybe, just maybe trying to have your way leads to hurting and harming others.

As for the ending result, we look at each other, we say we make each other happy. And we even say we love each other. Does this address your concerns? The ends justify the means. If someone wants me to leave them alone, then what's the REASON for it? People want answers. Their own desire for answers leads to the search for them. Think of it as a hook. Or a carrot on the end of a stick.


Newsflash hotshot. I never consent to leave people alone when they demand it. The argument works both ways. I respect it. But there's BIGGER danger at times. Do you even consider that? Or are you too busy seeing me as nothing but a monster? It's almost as if you don't have an open mind. And for the record, I give people space when they need it (sometimes I even jump the gun without asking/checking in. Satisfied, you abusive bully?). But there's a difference. Also, don't dare to force rules on others. You never asked for my consent did you? Isn't just a tiiiiny but hypocritical? Why should I do what you want me to do. Oh wait, I do ask people before I do things. Which you didn't seem to consider because you're too busy seeing the worst of everything.


"Deserve". Who's deciding this here? You? You do understand that I have personally been talked down on and calmly defused volatile situations, right? And I do understanding and respect AND trust the person doing that. Because that's what being UNDERSTANDING does. Thanks for asking.


No one ever has to do anything. But believe it or not there are people that are tolerant, understanding and patient. You're clearly not such a person. You're too busy seeing the worst of people around you. And we both know I'm just talking about me. You've sad yourself you have major trust issues and don't trust anyone other then yourself in another thread. That is not a judgement I can trust.

Even I know there are times I can't trust my own judgement alone. You people miss context. You do NOT know the full story. The more you make me a target, the more you ARE that bully you complain about.

Let me paint a bullseye on myself. Keep going, please, by all means.