Ethical Non-Monogamy

MisterAshmodai​(dom male) • Feb 18, 2021

Taramafor

There is a lot going on in your comment.
I like how you described mono and poly as two sides of a single coin instead of working to differentiate the two more than they already are. They exist on a spectrum, as does everything, and it is important to realize just how close any means of showing love or interacting intimately really is to all of the others.

Bunnie • Feb 18, 2021

@ BlackEarthDuke,

Your introduction into this topic is fantastic. Thank you. It’s always a pleasure being able to gain more learning from those with wisdom around areas that may fit outside the mainstream. Poly has been a hot topic in the whole time I’ve been here... mostly in the form of misunderstanding. It is certainly a very misunderstood and abused relationship style, especially within the BDSM community, and most definitely in the world of online.

Identifying as poly is not something I personally embody, because although I do love many, in many different ways, I do not feel responsible enough, nor have the desire, to share an intimate bond with more than one. Master, however, is poly (I too prefer to use the term ENM). So as you stated in your response earlier, we would be classed as a harem household, although the term HOH (Head of Household) seems more accurate for us, as it feels like it incorporates more of our power exchange dynamic (M/s). It was such a relief to finally find a relationship style that felt right for me. As I explained just the other day in a small group discussion, monogamy always felt like wearing a pair of ill-fitting shoes, but not knowing any different, so continuing to just wear them. Now I feel like I’m running barefoot through grass

@ OraclePollon,

The first time I came across the concept of “Ethical Non Monogamy” was through an awesome housemate I lived with, who recommended a book to me, that I would highly recommend if you’re curious, called The Ethical Slut by, Janet W. Hardy and Dossie Easton.

As we know, judgement sticks to words like glue, and simply gets shuffled along the grapevine, until it simply becomes synonymous with that word, regardless of whether it’s true or not.
“Slut” brings with it beliefs of promiscuity, amorality, sinfulness, pathological behaviour, being “easy,” no ability to maintain a “real” relationship, issues around sex, skewed views of what a “real” relationship is, inability for intimacy... the list can go on. Swap the word “slut” with “poly,” and there are many of the same misconceptions... because it seems it’s not far seen from simply being slutty. Then there are also those who use “poly” as simply an umbrella to be unfaithful or just purposely “bad” or “lazy” relationship people.

This is why I prefer the term Ethical Non Monogamy. Because it shows that there is thought and mindfulness behind the choices made. It shows that it is our preferred relationship style because it better fits “who I am” rather than simply being an opportunity to sleep with more people or ignore relationship problems. It shows others who identify the same way, that we share the same core values. Fundamentally it is simply a label, much like any of the other “identifying” things we use.

Hopefully that all makes sense in explaining the wording choice a little more.

OraclePollon​(sub female){NotYours} • Feb 19, 2021

Thanks Bunnie,

Now to not take over the post and let better, more experienced people take the helm, this will be my last post.

So awesome that you had a housemate you could just sit with and pick their brain. Sounds like heaven. What you said makes so much sense. I 100% understand pushing back on the bad "rap" the term poly had gotten because of people using it for the wrong reasons. That is why I was confused. I am much an advocate for "take back the night" and things of that nature, like "Slut" "Bitch" and all those derogatory terms. Thanks for the moment to explain.

I am still saddened that you can't use the word poly freely because of bias labeling, but it justifies having this new way to represent yourselves positively.

Love you guys, and all my friends who read these and struggle with it too. I have learned so much from you all ❤

Taramafor​(sub male) • Feb 19, 2021

Here's the thing. That's the cornerstone period, regardless of relationship dynamic or lack thereof.

This is why I treat a stranger the same way. Which is why I get the results I do. Do you lie and deceive a stranger? If so you probably have more issues then others (trust issues. Which in turn leads to other issues). Nothing good comes from lies and secrets.

I drag out the truth. I expose people for what they are. And I show everything about myself and show the results it gets. Others follow the example. Even if they were evasive and dealt with secrets. It just works. Set the example. Have others follow the example.

Only someone that is ignorant deals with secrets and lies. Because they know less the the brutally honest ones. But the former approach leads to long term harm/damage. The later approach gets it over with.

If people can't handle the truth, I'm the least of their problems. They snap and be negative. I remain calm under pressure because I'm certain and know more then they do. It's not about being "in the right". It's about full and fair warning. The truth must be established in the interest of your own safety.

It's not just working when I do it. People that take this approach make things work better and faster. Unless someone turns their back on you. But if you let them go, that's on you. Will it hurt them when they don't get their way? Sure. But does understanding and awareness lead to good things? Yes.

It works with EVERY relationship and strangers. It's the cornerstone period. And if someone pretends otherwise, I prove them wrong after talking about it and asking how I can trust them if they lie too and device others. That really nails the point home. Especially if you're showing the more honest approach leads to being more positive. If they're negative, they want to be happy being honest when they see this. Honesty becomes attractive.

Sometimes (perhaps a lot of the time really) you got to get through the ugly part though. But hey, honesty is honesty. Can't help/support you if I don't know how.

MisterAshmodai​(dom male) • Feb 19, 2021

While openness and honesty would be a cornerstone for any form of relationship, it is not always the case. Much less than it should be.
A common misconception regarding ethical non-monogamy is that it is nothing more than legitimized cheating. This is not the case as cheating requires a lack of consent (or illicit manufacture thereof) most often gained through lying in some form or another. By its very nature, monogamy requires more compromise than non-monogamy, and is much more likely to result in delusional affirmation simply because the average person would rather be in an unfulfilling relationship than be alone. Even with this need to hold on, monogamy is more likely then non-monogamy to result in difficult separation, or eventual regret. While this is certainly not the case for all mono relationships, based purely on common logic, it makes sense that limiting unnecessary boundaries results in a higher degree of success.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Feb 19, 2021

@BlackearthDuke: True, regarding not being honest enough for a lot of people. The biggest danger of all is wilful ignorance. Some people choose to be idiots. It's "easy" to not think. Enjoy flow and the moment, sure. But never use your brain? Thus I teach people to use it.

I tend to be the more observant one. I know more then others do. This can lead to them feeling inadequate. Or otherwise cause them to be in denial/hypocritical when they're too busy assuming. Which can lead to toxicity. Someone once called me an enigma that they can't quite figure me out. Despite the current toxic moment (we worked things out very quickly after), this interest lead to their desire to find answers. If someone is that curious, they are that curious.

The trick is to make it about what ISN'T known. Not just what is known. Tell me you're not interested? Well then, we're talking about with what specifically. Exactly. Without the generalised labels.

I might know more then most others. But it's the wisest know it's about what isn't known. You only know and feel what you do with what you know. But once I add a dose of truth suddenly your world is turned upside down. And I'll enjoy tearing down peoples sheltered lives to boot. They might get scared at first. Or angry. Or hell, some worst case scenarios can involve the brink of total destruction.

But if you're that curious you're that curious. And if finding those answers makes people happy then it makes people happy. If you're still unhappy it's because you don't know enough yet. Probably why they say life can be a lesson.

TheAnt​(dom male) • Feb 19, 2021

Black Earth Duke,
Thank you for this Forum post. I have just started down this road a couple months ago. I have had a few revisions to understand my own thoughts on a dynamic that would work for me and the first sub that I added. Based on past experiences, it was expanded and became Poly. We have added the "everyone gets a vote" clause recently as it was done, just not with the formality it is done now. Well, formality might be a an over-reach, but everyone gets to review anyone being added.

I don't really picture myself in a Harem by the classical definition as everyone gets an equal amount of time dedicated to them as per the dynamic. But under the terms as you provide, it would fit the Harem. Permission is granted from the Dom to engage in any sexual interaction outside the dynamic but it also see that as a standard within a dynamic so in effect maybe that means that a BDSM poly arrangement is more tailored to the Harem??

Although technically ENM in how my dynamic is presented (I blog posted it's rules and guidelines) like OraclePollon has brought up, I have avoided the term largely due to the connotations implied with the term "ethical non-monogamy". We are certainly ethical and we certainly practice non-monogamy but it does seem to imply a superiority to monogamy by some and it also breeches the subject that by inserting the "ethical" in it appears to be self-defensive in nature. I certainly get it.

There is a huge difference in how I am structuring my dynamic as opposed to some poly I have encountered who do not even know who the other subs are within their dynamic under the Dom. I consider that a serious issue in amongst itself that makes it seem like the Dom is actively cheating on his subs even though again in a dynamic, the Dom can set it up anyway he chooses. He has no obligation, unless spelled out in some fashion in a contractual or set of rules and/or guidelines as to how he conducts the business within his dynamic and there is technically no right or wrong.

One final note, is I am very curious on how business is done (so to speak) when a sub within a poly Dynamic has involvement with additional Doms, in other words, the sub is a member of two or more dynamics. That becomes extremely convoluted as to who the Dom actually has within his sphere of control in reference to training, protocol and expectations as well as a few collaring questions up? Can she be collared by more than one Dom and if so how does that even work? A collar has always been a symbol (to me) as total submission to a Dom. Can she be totally submitted to two or more Doms? Logic (in my head) says no.

Since I would describe myself as a newbie to the poly world, let me know if I am off-base or confused. I appreciate the input.

slaveMikayla​(sub female){MstrJ } • Feb 19, 2021

Fantastic forum post. Thank you for bringing your own perspective to it. JuicyJess wrote a fantastic blog post on it a while back which I found incredibly well done.
The thing I appreciated most about your post which I've not seen addressed here previously was the use and differentiation of the terms paramours and metamours.
~Faith

ps. <3 well answered, Momma <3

slaveMikayla​(sub female){MstrJ } • Feb 19, 2021

"One final note, is I am very curious on how business is done (so to speak) when a sub within a poly Dynamic has involvement with additional Doms, in other words, the sub is a member of two or more dynamics. That becomes extremely convoluted as to who the Dom actually has within his sphere of control in reference to training, protocol and expectations as well as a few collaring questions up? Can she be collared by more than one Dom and if so how does that even work? A collar has always been a symbol (to me) as total submission to a Dom. Can she be totally submitted to two or more Doms? Logic (in my head) says no. ~DaddyAnt

Hey hi MxDaddyAnt, I hope that the OP (BlackEarthDuke) will give His own reply to this... but because this fits my relationships I'd like to take the opportunity to address it.
In my relationship we are all ENM. No one is unaware, there is no manufactured or coerced consent. The goal is for each person to be "deliriously happy" and "completely satisfied". Because of the nature of life as the OP stated, it is incredibly difficult to find that in one person, usually there is some degree of compromise which may or may not be satisfactory to all parties. The reason imho that it is more often seen that D/s M/s relationships are more suited to Harem situations are twofold.
#1 a degree of compromise or surrender of the desire to another is inherent and many times SOUGHT by s types. We, more often than not, feel positively about surrendering part of or all of our desire to Another as a mark of our care and devotion.
#2 it is far more *complicated* for a submissive or slave to have more than one Dominant in their life.

Yes, complicated, but not at all impossible.
There are many ways that that issue can be overcome. I have seen it handled as "when in my sandbox you follow my rules." (I personally do not prefer this as it has a high degree of incontinuity to it). I have seen Dominants have a meeting of the minds and either agree on mutual rules as a base and then tailor other aspects to "when in my sandbox". The enforcement of the base rules being left to whoever is present or sees the submissive next. (I like this setup as it feels very cohesive to me). I have seen it done where the multiple Dominants agree as to which areas and aspects of the submissive/slave's life they control and divvy it up that way. I've seen it done where one Dominant is the Primary and whatever He says goes, but when the submissive is with other partners (be they vanilla or D/s) that she is allowed to engage so long as it does not directly contravene a rule set forth by her Primary ... and it is her duty to inform the others of those rules or stipulations. (I've been involved in one such relationship and it went very well. I'm honest and have no issues being forthright about what those rules are. My secondary partner was also a very balanced and mature man so he had no jealousy issues if for example i had to tell him that I was on denial for a week so no, sorry, we could not play today. ETC.)

The point is, yes, all relationships are complicated. The more moving pieces you add the more complicated it can be, but if everyone desires a specific situation then you have more heads to fit together to come up with creative solutions that respect and honor all involved. The most important point was made by the OP that each person, when they are truly concerned for their and their partners' needs and happiness TRULY DEEPLY committed to such, then happiness becomes exponentially EASIER. You stop looking at the "hard/difficult/complicated" and start looking at the "we can make this work!"

~The Velveteen slave, Faith

TheAnt​(dom male) • Feb 19, 2021

Thank you The Velveteen Slave​. Your clarity really helps. I appreciate the feedback. It gives me a much better understanding of how a situation such as a sub having multiple Doms works.
-DA