Cuckold and forced bi

Steellover​(sub male) • Jan 13, 2022

I understand Closeted's point as far as the "Self Esteem" thing, but with me- it's not that at all.

The difference is this: those submissive males who are into cuckolding are into it because they are turned on, aroused, or what have you- by the idea of their partner with another lover. Not because they feel that they somehow "Deserve to be mistreated," but because it gives them a powerful, voyeristic thrill that is indescribably intense.

A guy who allows his wife to cuckold him but gets no real satisfaction out of it, but just has a defeatist like "Well I probably just deserve it, so whatever..." that's more of a self esteem thing like he's talking about.

The pleasure comes in having your limit's stretched- not shattered all at once. And, as submissives, we get pleasure in the satisfaction of giving pleasure to our partner- in this case, pushing our limits and doing things we might not otherwise do, because of the emotional hold and physical attraction our partner has over us. So, with forced bi for example, I would do it for Her simply for the pleasure of seeing her satisfied. Not because I'm closeted gay or have low self esteem.

You could also argue, unfairly, that people (of either gender) who get off on being spanked have low self esteem because they "tolerate abuse." And that's obviously not the case.

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Jan 13, 2022

I *don't* understand how someone can furrow their brow and declare anyone involved in cuckolding to be a pitiable and unfortunate person lacking self esteem but then extoll their own pleasure in being "forced" to lick a butthole. Either of these two acts can - for anyone else not directly involved in them - be considered degrading and humiliating and be brushed off as the giver having little to no self esteem. I frequently wish I could "see" inside someone else's mind when I struggle to interpret how they make their value judgments. That's not me being a smartass. It's me being very honest.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Jan 13, 2022

I’m at work and unable to contribute at length right now, but love this kind of discussion.
I was mystified by my own arousal to being degraded/humiliated, then connected awhile back that it’s a dual experience. I do not get aroused when the act is done forcefully or in a bullying, mean way, but when it’s done with lust and affection, it opens me wide and surface’s the sub in me. I attribute the paradoxical feelings ( they are not rational) to cultural conditioning against a part of myself. The act is affirming but conditioning makes me feel humiliated and degraded. My break is over

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Jan 13, 2022

I always enjoy your insight into the discussions and look forward to hearing more detail from you when you're not working. I can relate to the enjoyment of certain acts that others might consider degrading or humiliating as that kind of play is also one I enjoy when I'm in the right mindset and without fail - it has to be done with the right partner for me. I'd not engage in some of those more intimate and soul baring acts with a casual play partner.

What I'm failing to understand is how someone can deride someone else for lacking self esteem because of a cuckold kink but then go onto to relate their own kink which can easily be seen as equally outside the boundaries of healthy self esteem. Again, I look forward to any insight you are willing to share, TSG

Open Minded Pleasure • Jan 13, 2022

I know this post is old, but thanks so much for sharing your story.

This echoed a lot of feelings I have. I don't care for being hooded and gagged, but I do love pleasing a dominant woman. I also have no attraction to men, but I love a woman with a strapon and I get very hard at the idea of taking a real cock for her. I had a relationship once where this almost happened. We talked about boundaries and were close to setting it up...then I got scared and the whole relationship fell apart. I tried being with men after that (twice - being the third for a male-female couple), but it didn't do much for me, since I wasn't pleasing the dominant woman I had feelings for.

I'm glad you got to explore your fantasy, and knowing there are like-minded people out there.

Steellover​(sub male) • Jan 14, 2022

I really enjoyed the explanation that TallSlenderguy had about the paradox of being aroused by the degredation/humiliation kink in an intimate and erotic setting, with the right person, but NOT in a bullying, forceful or non-consensual way. That sums it up perfectly.

Part of the point I was trying to make was that if you are going to call being cuckolded a "lack of self esteem issue" then you could easily say the same thing about most BDSM activities- being spanked, flogged, pegged, forced crossdressing, name your kink of choice: and someone might easily make the same argument about it, because it's just as valid. It simply reflects a lack of understanding about a particular kink- if it's not your thing.

For example I don't relate to the whole "Furry" fetish thing, as it's outside of my experience, and clearly not one of my "likes." I don't understand it, BUT I don't want to judge it either. Sometimes if something is outside of your particular limits, likes, tastes, etc it is too easy to judge it, to kink shame it even, without realizing that is what you are doing. I have made this mistake myself (and apologize for it if I ever do so.) Even though we should all strive to be non-judgemental on a site like this, sometimes we do so even though we don't mean to.

Perhaps, if cuckolding isn't your thing and never will be, then you can at least accept that some people are just turned on by it- with the same passion that you are into whatever kinks you are into.

LittleSubBBW​(sub female) • Jan 14, 2022

I’ve chatted with a young male who is submissive to his older wife. She has forced him into this situation. She picks other couples for them to swing with, all m/m couples. He was against it and she brought in their “therapist” who helped them draw up their kink contract. The therapist pointed out that he gave full control to his wife and agreed to swing with any couple she chose.

So he has felt stuck. He has been dealing with this for about a year and has just been beaten down mentally and takes whatever. Pleases the guy however the guy wants and get no pleasure in return. I didn’t know this sub before and we’ve only chatted but I’ve seen him basically be broken and give up on pleasure. It is really sad and I can’t see how his wife can do this.

I realize this is entirely a different situation. I only say it because you want to see things as how they will affect you and your relationship with your mistress.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Jan 14, 2022

Thank you for your kind comments WytchyWoman. i took a Myers Briggs type test in an executive management position once, it identified me as "nurturer" and "analytical critical thinker." Intuitively, those two things seem to contradict each other... but when i analyze them (rolls eyes at self) i can see where they fit together. i'm also a libra and it seems my nature to always look for balance. i don't think what i do is anything new or a discovery on my part, i know, for instance, yin/Yang has been around for a long time, To me it's just a matter of me seeing what already is.

As i see it, notions of self esteem are often cultural constructs. For instance, i was raised in a religious culture that taught me from an early age that being gay was a choice and a "sin," and "abomination to 'God'" etc.. i was conditioned to see and feel this way from an early age, both overtly and subtley. It's a form of ethnocentricity i think.

Most of us are familiar with ethnocentricity. How we believe AND feel that our way is THE way. We are exposed to another culture and we may think and feel they are barbarian, or dirty or ___________.

Cognitively i wonder and ask, who gets to set up the rules on what is right and wrong? What's the basis? Where does it come from? i don't think it's always all that easy to answer those questions. i think the question you ask about:
"...failing to understand... how someone can deride someone else for lacking self esteem because of a cuckold kink but then go on to relate their own kink which can easily be seen as equally outside the boundaries of healthy self esteem."

To me the derision derives from emotion, not cognition. We take our standards, especially emotional standards i think, (the ones we don't even necessarily put words to), as 'the standard' of what is or should be. Not meeting the standard is felt as failiiure.

i think i am just barely grazing he surface of this topic. i just got off a 13 hour shift and am blurry eyed, plus i think this is a vast topic. So vast that i think it comes down to individuals finding kinks that aline, i.e., feelings expressed in desires and needs.

Something else that complicates the process i think is how our needs/desires/kinks can be linked. For instance, i have a huge desire to please/pleasure a Man who has a huge desire/need to derive pleasure from me. That's foundational and kind of generic. i'm strictly bottom, so i know better than to even try this with another bottom. I.e., my bottom need is greater than my need to please. But if a Total Top comes along and has a huge desire/need to derive pleasure from a bottom, now we have to needs/desires that attract and aline with each other. Okay, lets say this Top also has some sadist in Him, but i don't have any masochist in me. i've experienced where this Man can add on a little sadism. While being Total Top and deriving pleasure from/with me He might slap my behind. Depending on how engaged we are in the other two areas, He might get manage to get me into being spanked.

i don't feel i am putting this well, i'm sleepy, but i have experienced being deeply opened and connected to a Man, and when in that state there may be a border thing He can 'add on" and i'll end up enjoying it because it's a part of a couple of other established and strong areas of pleasure/desire/need for both of us.

Sorry, i may be rambling lol.

Closetedfreak • Jan 14, 2022

I don't know about furrowing my brow, I've said to each his own, but it's this matter of being the B team in your own bedroom the feels like a self esteem issue. If someone finds excitement in that type of arrangement my judging may just add to the buzz of being put in that position.

I see the other poster's point that it isn't something he does because he feels he is undeserving, or unable to be enough for his partner, but it still sounds like those young women who have been sold on being sister wives to me. Again I'll say it's got a very low success rate long term, if you want long term.

I hope you don't take offense at someone disagreeing with you. Unless you just want an echo chamber, that is part of the interest in a message board for me.

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Jan 14, 2022

It's not a matter of "taking offense". I can see this has become a circular "discussion", though. You're just going to keep doubling (and tripling down) on the theme low self esteem and some kind of "brain washing" you seem to hint at. So understand that although I'm not offended, I am bored with treading the same old water here. I *am* willing to entertain any new points of view and engage on *that* level if any new ones are introduced. Hope your day is a good one.