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Old vs new guard

DrWakko
1 week ago • Jun 22, 2022
DrWakko • Jun 22, 2022
Old Guard came from the those that started leather clubs back in the late 1940 early 1950. The Old Guard were men who came back from WW2 and missed the comradery of military service. They formed motorcycle groups to start. They then opened clubs like Hellfire and The Eagle. The first three homes of Old Guard and Leather were SF, NY and Chicago. Clubs had a set of rules. From my understanding the most common was the uniform. Tops wore boots, jean, white shirts and leather vests. Bottoms wore boots, jeans, and a leather vest. You had to earn the role as Top everyone started as a bottom.

Women were not allowed into these clubs till the mid 60s. And as a joke a Leatherman out Chicago (I believe) started the hanky code.

Almost all of these Old Guard are dead. A lot of them didn’t make it past the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s.

Now a day there are few who carry on Old Guard tradition, but they have tweaked it to their own.

For those that want to know more about Leather and Old Guard I suggest checking out the Leather Museum And Archive in Chicago.

DW
DaddyXX
1 week ago • Jun 23, 2022
DaddyXX • Jun 23, 2022
one quick way to illustrate the difference..old guard=pre internet....now bdsm is not unusual..its all around you..its mainstream..old guard days..it took serious effort to seek out others...some will say was biker/gay influenced(see Al Pacino in 'Cruising' 1980)..either way it was 'pure'..limits..switching..safewords? Never heard of them in those days..now it is a shadow of what it was..is it better? worse? depemds on your perspetive..now you need to do an interview ..then..you had a label and all knew 'who' and 'what' you were/are..now ?
moll​(other female){owned slav}
1 week ago • Jun 23, 2022
KrazyChaos wrote:
Honestly... I'd be wary of someone touting "old guard".
Kink us customizable and there is no "right" or "wrong" way to be a sub.
A lot of "old guard" comes from the beliefs in the gor books. Which are fiction. That would be no different than me going around saying I have to see someone in sunlight to see if they're a vampire because I believe the twilight books. Or that every Dom MUST be an abused millionaire because that's what's in 50 shades.


NO! Old Guard does not come from Gor books. It started before Norman started writing his books in the mid 1960s. Old Guard comes from returning homosexual GIs that created Leather families after serving in the military in World War II, late 1940s. They experienced protocols, discipline, and hierarchies while serving and created families and communities with those tenants in mind.
moll​(other female){owned slav}
1 week ago • Jun 23, 2022
DrWakko wrote:
Old Guard came from the those that started leather clubs back in the late 1940 early 1950. The Old Guard were men who came back from WW2 and missed the comradery of military service. They formed motorcycle groups to start. They then opened clubs like Hellfire and The Eagle. The first three homes of Old Guard and Leather were SF, NY and Chicago. Clubs had a set of rules. From my understanding the most common was the uniform. Tops wore boots, jean, white shirts and leather vests. Bottoms wore boots, jeans, and a leather vest. You had to earn the role as Top everyone started as a bottom.

Women were not allowed into these clubs till the mid 60s. And as a joke a Leatherman out Chicago (I believe) started the hanky code.

Almost all of these Old Guard are dead. A lot of them didn’t make it past the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s.

Now a day there are few who carry on Old Guard tradition, but they have tweaked it to their own.

For those that want to know more about Leather and Old Guard I suggest checking out the Leather Museum And Archive in Chicago.

DW


It wasn't just the comradery. It was mostly the discipline, the protocols, and the hierarchy that they experienced while serving in the military during WWII.

Motorcycle clubs were mostly men who enjoyed the "open road" and didn't want to go back to "normal" civilian life.
SirsBabyDoll​(sub female)
1 week ago • Jun 23, 2022
SirsBabyDoll​(sub female) • Jun 23, 2022
moll wrote:
KrazyChaos wrote:
Honestly... I'd be wary of someone touting "old guard".
Kink us customizable and there is no "right" or "wrong" way to be a sub.
A lot of "old guard" comes from the beliefs in the gor books.


NO! Old Guard does not come from Gor books. It started before Norman started writing his books in the mid 1960s. Old Guard comes from returning homosexual GIs that created Leather families after serving in the military in World War II, late 1940s. They experienced protocols, discipline, and hierarchies while serving and created families and communities with those tenants in mind.


That is how I understand it as well, Moll.

Gor gave us kajiris. Old Guard gave us High Protocol and leather.

I've never read the books so I can only assume that the positions used by kajoris were adapted from Old Guard, but, they are vastly different.
His good girl​(sub female)
1 week ago • Jun 23, 2022
His good girl​(sub female) • Jun 23, 2022
Wow so much good advise

yes researching and gaining a better understanding is definitely my goal before seeking a LTR with a Dom

Appreciate all feedback, even comical ones lol...life is to short without humor 😄
Zedland​(dom male)
1 week ago • Jun 23, 2022
Zedland​(dom male) • Jun 23, 2022
"The Old Guard dies, it does not surrender." French General Etienne Cambronne. Right before his surrender at the battle of Waterloo.

Irrelevant I know, but I just had to add it.
Feleyra​(sub female)
1 week ago • Jun 23, 2022
Feleyra​(sub female) • Jun 23, 2022
old guard is "traditional" in the sense that there is only "this" way or "that" way to behave as a submissive - even bratting is considered "new" and is not recognized by anyone old guard. I would warn against it completely, unless you are comfortable with someone being extremely strict and unbending towards you. Look at it like this - throw negotiations out the window, old guard means "their way only".
SirsBabyDoll​(sub female)
1 week ago • Jun 23, 2022
SirsBabyDoll​(sub female) • Jun 23, 2022
Feleyra wrote:
old guard is "traditional" in the sense that there is only "this" way or "that" way to behave as a submissive - even bratting is considered "new" and is not recognized by anyone old guard. I would warn against it completely, unless you are comfortable with someone being extremely strict and unbending towards you. Look at it like this - throw negotiations out the window, old guard means "their way only".


I would disagree with you, at least in terms of friendships. I was dear friends with someone here who was trained in an Old Guard house. I am also a Brat. Many, MAAANY times we discussed topics at length and he was kind and funny. He was also quite shy. Dominant? Oh yes! But he was also accepting of other people's kink WITHOUT JUDGEMENT.

I also know a man (here) who says he is Old Guard, and isn't. This is why education about various forms of kink is so vital. You need to be able to identify the fakes from the genuine.