Punishment/ reward

Punishment/ reward

chattel​(sub female) • Jul 11, 2023

Is it possible to have a dynamic with the facet of rewards for desired behavior and punishments for undesired behavior that is at least in a small part manipulative?

Secret Mind​(dom male) • Jul 11, 2023

Is it manipulative to reward good behavior and punish when there's bad behavior?

I guess you can say that in a way a dominant is manipulating the behavior of a submissive. They are cleverly controlling and changing the submissive's behavior in a skilled manner.

Although manipulating is done in a more unnoticeable way without the person realizing it. Making someone think or act a certain way without out worldly telling them to think/act in that way.
Teaching and training would be better terms to use in this case.

Garv​(dom male) • Jul 12, 2023

Perhaps that is why there also known as "Funishments"

TopekaDom​(dom male) • Jul 12, 2023

Gawd I hate that term.

TopekaDom​(dom male) • Jul 12, 2023

But to answer the OP, rewards and punishments are control factors and all control factors are manipulative. As are all things in the universe, manipulation is neither good or bad, but how they are used can be one or the other.

Satindragon{Not Lookin} • Jul 12, 2023

You hear good girls get rewards, bad girls get punished all the time.

Most of the Dominants that I know prefer an obedient girl. Therefore they often use things like an extra thirty minute at bed time. Or an earlier bedtime for a punishment.

I think it's been that way forever.

Just my humble thoughts.

Miki​(masochist female) • Jul 12, 2023

Interesting.. "manipulation" doesn't connote well for me, but the idea of rewards and penalties.. physical, mental, sexual or not.. Is that not the whole ball of wax of BDSM?

I always consider "manipulation" as pertaining to unwanted acts by one partner to more or less coerce the other into conforming to one's wishes and opinions?

Sounds a wee bit different to me.

But what do I know since I'm only a "kinkster" and never play for keeps.

But even then... the delicious physical punishments.. Always a turn on, for me anyway. Everyone is different. That's why I am an unrepentant Brat when I do screw around with a twist.

And that wasn't all the time when I was active. Sometimes it was good enough just to get boinked.

Mistress Kassandra​(dom female) • Jul 13, 2023

Yes it's manipulation, but it's agreed to in certain dynamics. So while it's manipulation, it's above board

LordofPain56 • Jul 13, 2023

To answer the originator of the post question; in my view, if a known set of rules have been agreed upon, there is no manipulation in a negative sense. It's just obeying or disobeying the rules.
I think for most people, the term "manipulation" is generally considered negative and unwanted.
In my set of rules, the very first one says: "Thou shalt not lie, omit the truth, keep secrets nor attempt to deceive thy Master".
Each of those things could be used to manipulate or to hide a secret agenda. Each of those is called "sin" at my house and carries a penalty if the rule is transgressed.
The penalty itself is not manipulative. The penalty is part of a conditional "covenant". It leads the reader to realize that the rules are good and deserve a reward, but that transgression of the rules deserves punishment.
In Deuteronomy 11:26-28, God placed a blessing before the Israelites for obeying His 10 commandments, and a curse if they dis-obeyed them. In various places in Exodus through Deuteronomy He defined those blessings and curses. It is this type of conditional covenant that I imitate. Many people of all faiths imitate it even without knowing the origin of it.

House Talion​(dom male) • Jul 13, 2023

Yes.