Victim Blaming and Rape Culture in Kink

Victim Blaming and Rape Culture in Kink

simplylaura​(sub female){djinni} • Aug 11, 2023

I made a statement on another post that seems to have troubled some folks. I don't apologize one bit, but I want to move the discussion to a new thread because the OP of that post deserves her space.

I've noticed a disturbing trend of victim blaming on the Cage in the time I've spent here. In this case, the OP was told that they brought an overwhelming amount of messages upon themself because they had revealing pics on their profile.

Their profile on a kink site. Literally the place someone should be able to show themselves off without being harassed. However, some people on here think that because "that's the way the world is" that we shouldn't all others out when they are participating in blaming the person who expresses themself how they want. This isn't okay.

Djinni and I spent last weekend at a reboot of one of the largest BDSM conventions in the country. It was a reboot because the previous owners decided to end it because of attendee's bad behavior. Harassment. Consent violations, walking inappropriately dressed through public areas, making things uncomfortable for the hotel staff, calling the fucking police because someone was not allowed to late register and started a scene. There is a rising trend in bad behavior amongst kinksters and the only way to end it is for people who have been around for a long time (20 years in the public scene in my case) and who are leaders (10 years in leadership of Denver's longest lasting Leather club) to call this crap out.

Kink is supposed to be radical, safe, transformational. We are supposed to be the outsiders, not the ones who uphold the status quo. This post I'm replying to is asking us to maintain the status quo because that's how it's always been.

I'm not okay with that. We spent last weekend surrounded by hundreds of people in various states of undress (so many boobs and weiners) and never once did my attraction or desire lead to me harassing someone I thought was attractive (except for Djinni and that's consentual). I'm friends with the leadership of that event and I haven't heard of one case of bad behavior yet because WE POLICE OURSELVES. We could tell who the creepers were and people ignored them. Or they were told off by not just leadership, but regular folks.

This includes how people, particularly women and newbies, are treated. This is an online community and people think that they can get away with bad behavior because they're behind a screen. I don't believe in this, nor do I believe that we need to uphold rape culture because that's how it's always been.

A person should feel free to appear in any way they desire (within the rules of the site) without being told that they brought harassment upon themselves. That's all I'm saying. And frankly I don't care if you think I'm a man-hating, feminist rabble rouser whose language is too strong. People on this site are problematic as fuck and get away with it because others are scared to speak up. Well I'm not.

I will absolutely call out someone who is saying harmful things and I will not use gentle language. Victim blaming is a form of rape apologism and if I have to use that kind of language to call out a person who is consistently problematic I will.

Speaking out against rape culture and victim blaming shouldn't be a matter of "my standard vs. yours." The ONLY standard for that is consent.

Here are a couple relevant definitions:

A definition of victim blaming: "Victim blaming can be defined as someone saying, implying, or treating a person who has experienced harmful or abusive behaviour (such as a survivor of sexual violence) like it was a result of something they did or said, instead of placing the responsibility where it belongs: on the person who harmed them." (Sexual Assault Center of Edmonton https://www.sace.ca/learn/victim-blaming/).

And
Of Rape apologist: “Rape Apologist” is an umbrella term for someone who for someone who blames survivors, has a general disbelief in allegations of assault, and participates in the normalization of sexual violence. They can be any person of any gender identity, sexuality, race, ethnicity, or age. While the term make evoke an image of a particular group or type of person, in reality, anyone can be a rape apologist. A rape apologist is not just someone who is outwardly aggressive towards survivors who speak out or someone who makes sexually harassing comments, they are also someone who is apathetic or tolerant towards sexual violence. One either participates in upholding or dismantling rape culture. (PAVE- Promoting Awareness Victim Empowerment, Chicago https://www.shatteringthesilence.org/blog/identifying-a-rape-apologist).

TopekaDom​(dom male) • Aug 11, 2023

No it isn't right and, yes, it has been going on for years now. If not decades.

Largely it comes from self important pricks who think because they are dimlyDoms they can do as they think regardless of the rules. (Now when I say "pricks" that is without gender. I've seen women do the same thing in the past) This kind of behavior is one of the reasons I quit going to overly large gatherings. When I had to break a guy's pinky (it may have been dislocated. I never did find out) because he would not leave a friend of mine alone after being told no, I find myself limiting things to 20 or smaller get togethers.

Canuconvinceme​(sub female) • Aug 11, 2023

Fetlife is really bad for what you are describing. I had intimate pictures posted that I prided myself in being brave enough to post, only to take them down because I was being told repeatedly that my pictures indicated I wanted disrespect, verbal abuse and degradation.
It's happened here too, but to a lesser degree, but then the pictures I have posted here are also of a lesser degree.

On the other end of the spectrum are people who are offended by dick pic avators on the theory that it's a consent violation. They argue they should not have to see a penis, on a kink site, unless they want to see a penis.

There will always be critics, people who disapprove of your choices, and people who make assumptions about what your behavior invites them to do or not do, people who think their individual rights and needs are more important than anyone else's.

I think the solution is to call out that behavior when it happens (assuming it physically safe for you to do so), set boundaries, treat people with respect, require others to treat you with respect and treat yourself with respect... (unless your kink includes you being disrespected, in which case, you do you, boo. Carry on).

Solace​(dom male) • Aug 11, 2023

Thank you for moving the topic, the original OP did in fact deserve her space and not to have it hijacked by an alternative discussion.

The issue at heart is you escalated something beyond the substance provided. Men are messaging her. That is not harassment, it is not harassment to attempt to speak to someone you wish to speak to. Your leap to victim blaming and accusing another member of being a rape apologist when no rape or context there of was a best a radical leap in logic. It turned an innocent " I have to many messages" into "You agree with rape". She was in fact "flattered" by the attention. Her words.

If the context was the type of attention she was receiving then your argument would have been more justified. Emphasis on more because it would still have to be abusive attention. It wasn't though, it was message quantity, and flattering message quantity. There is not a rock to stand on that argues against nudity in ladies profiles resulting in more attention, and if that isn't already known by that sweet girl then someone should inform her.

We can also sit here and say victim blaming is a horrible thing, and in many instances it is terrible. However, a man who goes a construction site with out a hard hat on and gets injured should be blamed. As should the person who caused the accident. Two parties can be at fault, the one who didn't keep himself safe and the one who caused it. Both things need to be fixed. If we take the leap of logic that the messages were abusive in nature, we are still responsible as a community for educating her on how to keep herself safe from them if she wishes it. It is not her responsibility to endure abuse while the community fixes itself.


Something is wrong with the community. Okay. Its changing for the worse, alright. We need to be better, hell yes. I'm with you. People need manners, decorum and harassment needs to stop. All good things that no one in their right mind would disagree with. The previous thread was not the pulpit though. This thread could have and should have happened organically after your going to said convention. Rather than being a gotcha callout this should be a productive thread about how to improve the community with ideas and actions. Organization and follow through. You don't like the players? Make and exclusive space that plays only with vetted people. They exist, here even I've seen them. You think new members are uneducated, wonderful lets round up volunteers to take on applicants here, start a forum thread for just that. You think harassment isn't being punished, Great! Lets have a chat with staff about what that definition here is, and how we can police it.

Jumping down another members throat, and accusing them of some pretty horrid things will never promote that sort of cohesion in the community. Your first step was an attempt to socially ostracize someone. If you skip past the dialog and understanding part in such a mundane instance, how can anyone expect fair discourse here? In full point of fact it encourages people to not speak and not be "outed" in a public space.

autisticbarbie • Aug 15, 2023

I really love this post Laura. Thank you for spreading awareness about this important issue. Women and novices get treated like shit on these fetish websites, and these are the people who are typically the most vulnerable to fuckery from predators. No you are not asking for it ladies. Wow.

To the folks mentioning that other website that begins with a F - I think it's way worse here than there. Although I'm grateful for the lack of dick pics (bless your hearts cage members), it's harder for me to tell if a person is a piece of crap here than there. It's incredibly useful for me to see what other people they follow and pictures they like and groups they join and what they say to others 'in public'. Here it's way easier to hide all that. When I first joined and didn't know a damn thing about anything, it was much more difficult for me to vet people here or know what to avoid and I nearly let myself get caught in a terrible situation. I find censorship to be harmful pretty much all of the time when adults are involved. If you are a piece of shit and you are in my DMs, I wanna know so I don't have to deal with you, lol.

HurtSoGood • Aug 17, 2023

While I do not necessarily disagree with the entire context or intent behind OP’s post, I did read the other thread as well. Using that as context, I do not believe that the intent behind the comment regarding pics of a more erotic nature was indicative of victim blaming or being a rape apologist. The way I read the comment, it was intended as an observation of the reality of any online forum. Whether we agree or disagree with it and whether it is right or wrong, this does not change the facts of the world we live in.

Should I be able to walk out of my house and down the street topless and remain unmolested? Absolutely. Would it be my right to not be subjected to unwanted advances, comments or looks? Indisputably so. But what is the reality of that scenario? I think any rational individual would agree that I would be increasingly more susceptible to negative interactions were I to do so. Is it okay? No. Do I accept this? Absolutely not.

However, I do take accountability. If I want to walk around nude or post sexy pics, unfortunately I know what the result of that is going to be. I handle myself accordingly. I carry a gun, a knife, pepper spray. I am hyper vigilant of my surroundings and the people around me. I ignore unsolicited, disrespectful messages. I block people that I find offensive. I don’t acknowledge them at all or maybe I’m feeling frisky and I unload some vitriol of my own in return.

All that being said, victim blaming/shaming and being a rape apologist are never okay. And I would not stand idly by and accept that. I appreciate the sentiment behind this thread but it was unfair to foist these labels on someone who is merely observing the ridiculous reality we inhabit.

Good vibes all around! 😊

SubmissiveWish​(sub female) • Aug 17, 2023

I think this is well put. We can assume how people, in this situation, men, will react much like a mathematical equation. The more women share via photos (because we know most of these hounds can't read), the bigger the swarm. It is less than ideal but sadly will take at least two more generations before we see improvement.

Literate Lycan​(dom male) • Aug 17, 2023

Good morning. I read this post when it first came out and read the original post from which this derived.

First, I concur this is a kink site and I personally enjoy when individuals post personal photos of themselves - male, female or other. I would argue that most of the men on this site (and women but we are focusing on the men for this) view the photos, enjoy them as they are, and go about their business in a fairly respectful manner. No harm, no disrespectful foul. At most, I may "Love" someone's profile - but chances are for me to hit the love button, they have to have something written to correspond with the photos - that's just me. I hardly ever correspond with anyone else beyond responses in blogs or Forum - until we do.

But, what was commented on the original post was meant not to victim blame or shame or anything. One male felt obliged to apologize for even reaching out to the OP - which he didn't need to apologize for - and a very good person told him not to blame himself for sending the OP a message. The OP was flattered by the messages, as Solace indicated above.

The response that has generated this post was not in any way victim shaming or blaming - just pointing out that if you post certain photos (even here), it will increase the number of messages you receive. That is a reality. That individual is a genuine and nice person and someone I think highly of.

As for it taking another two generations before we see improvement - doubtful. Most men don't act in an untoward way. Most men are decent. But enough asshats exist that it will always continue. We can hope for better. However, this isn't about that. Regarding the original Forum post in question, the OP wasn't complaining about the content received - she was enjoying it. She wasn't indicating she was a victim; she didn't mention any negative messages received - she just felt there was so much and it was overwhelming. Good for her! She's having a good time it seems.

I agree with your intent that there is no room to victim blame or apologize for rapists. Zero room for this! But I concur with comments above: this wasn't a case of that in my opinion.

Have an excellent day.
LL

djinni​(dom female){smplylaura} • Aug 17, 2023

She posted pics of her naked breasts, she’s brought this on herself……

She was wearing a short skirt… she was asking for it.

I don’t give a crap of your reasoning, this is the same. Even if she was flattered with the attention that statement is not ok. We love The Cage but not this culture. I honestly don’t care about her pics or the dozens of leg humpers who drooled all over her. She’s an adult and with or without those pics she would have gotten those messages as a newbie to the site. I’ve seen similar posts from women with empty profiles. It’s the nature of the beast of a kink website. What I 100% have issue with is someone pointing out that she has naked breasts in a pic and that she was asking for the attention. I don’t respect anyone who treats people that way, nor do they have any evidence of the education for the so called expertise or advice they are constantly spewing.

If you still want to dig your heels in and say that it’s not wrong, so be it. There is no coming to the compromise or a we just agree to disagree. I will forever think of you as someone who is misogynistic and quite frankly disgusting. I hope that you never find yourself on a jury for SA trial, for the victims sake.

HurtSoGood • Aug 17, 2023

I would say, in response to djinni, that I am speaking from the perspective of someone who HAS been raped and assaulted and victim blamed and victim shamed. I’ve been scared to leave my house. I’ve been hyper conscious over my appearance so I wouldn’t “bring it on myself”. I have lived, and still do, with the repercussions of things that were done to me without my consent.

In no capacity whatsoever do I believe that any individual is “asking for it” because they have any part of their body revealed. That’s absolutely ludicrous and an absolute violation of basic human rights and decency. We all have the right to live our lives undisturbed and unmolested in whatever way we see fit without having to fear being told that we, in any way, consent to a violation of our person.

This post was addressing two separate issues tho. The first being the acceptance of victim blaming and the second being an assertion that a specific individual on this site was engaging in that.The lady that posted her breasts has every right to do so without harassment, assuming we live in an ideal world. We do not. Tho she never said she was being harassed. I wholeheartedly agree with the content in regard to the reality of victim blaming. However, the comment in question that is being remarked on was not delivered with the intent that is being attributed to it. There was no blaming or shaming conveyed, simply an observation based on the reality that we live with.

I can agree to disagree, tho for the bulk of it we are actually in agreement.