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Victim Blaming and Rape Culture in Kink

djinni​(dom female){smplylaura}
1 year ago • Aug 17, 2023
HurtSoGood wrote:
I would say, in response to djinni, that I am speaking from the perspective of someone who HAS been raped and assaulted and victim blamed and victim shamed. I’ve been scared to leave my house. I’ve been hyper conscious over my appearance so I wouldn’t “bring it on myself”. I have lived, and still do, with the repercussions of things that were done to me without my consent.

In no capacity whatsoever do I believe that any individual is “asking for it” because they have any part of their body revealed. That’s absolutely ludicrous and an absolute violation of basic human rights and decency. We all have the right to live our lives undisturbed and unmolested in whatever way we see fit without having to fear being told that we, in any way, consent to a violation of our person.

This post was addressing two separate issues tho. The first being the acceptance of victim blaming and the second being an assertion that a specific individual on this site was engaging in that.The lady that posted her breasts has every right to do so without harassment, assuming we live in an ideal world. We do not. Tho she never said she was being harassed. I wholeheartedly agree with the content in regard to the reality of victim blaming. However, the comment in question that is being remarked on was not delivered with the intent that is being attributed to it. There was no blaming or shaming conveyed, simply an observation based on the reality that we live with.

I can agree to disagree, tho for the bulk of it we are actually in agreement.


If there was no malice in that post by the other person, please explain to me how it was even relevant. Why point out that she had pictures of her breast posted? What was the end game? Lots of people jumping to the defense of this person, without giving one single validating point in their favor. Even if they thought it, it was definitely saying that she had posted the pictures to receive the attention. Think what you want but posting things that shame other women for just living, not acceptable and I’m going to call it out.
HurtSoGood
1 year ago • Aug 17, 2023
HurtSoGood • Aug 17, 2023
As is your right 😊 thank you for the interesting discussion.
Solace​(dom male)
1 year ago • Aug 17, 2023
Solace​(dom male) • Aug 17, 2023
It has been explained. Multiple times, by several people. I encourage you to reread these posts with a different lens. Your current one in insufficient for discussion, which is the point of a forum.

Example your words:

"Even if they thought it, it was definitely saying that she had posted the pictures to receive the attention."

Perhaps my memory is poor, but no one said this. Not once. No one said she posted the pictures specifically to receive more attention. This is your subjective rephrasing of what was said. You are mentally inserting words into the context. What was said is that her posting that pic has likely resulted in a higher volume of messages. The statements noted the effect rather than blamed her for the deed, which is a very distinct thing.

I have had discussions with ladies here who have removed such photos and added them depending on the amount of attention they desire. Their words. My commenting on this or bringing it to light does not make me victim blamer or a rape apologist because there isn't a victim to be had in these instances.
Vint​(masochist female)
1 year ago • Aug 17, 2023
Vint​(masochist female) • Aug 17, 2023
I have to agree that I see no victim in this situation. She was overwhelmed by a multitude of messages, being sent a message isn’t instant harassment, it would depend on the content of the message and as far as I saw this wasn’t about the contents. You can’t victim blame someone that isn’t a victim.

Have you considered asking her if she felt victimized? Is it not an assumption on your end to frame her experience as victimization? Assuming that she is a victim is it’s own version of harassment.
Horror Business​(dom male)
1 year ago • Aug 17, 2023
Horror Business​(dom male) • Aug 17, 2023
I'm into plenty of fucked up stuff, but consent is ALWAYS key. Plenty of people on both sides of the d/s dynamic enjoy working out problematic desires in a safe, controlled environment, and that should never be an excuse to be a piece of shit or outright rapist.

Edit: just to be clear, I replied to the OP without reading the rest of the discussion first.


Last edited by * on Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total
Satindragon{Not Lookin}
1 year ago • Aug 17, 2023
Satindragon{Not Lookin} • Aug 17, 2023
The thing that most people who have committed on this post need to realize. Is that you cannot reason with someone who has so much hatred in their heart.

Neither this world nor this site are perfect.
Instead of being the pot calling the kettle black. It's time to stop.
I'mME
1 year ago • Aug 17, 2023
I'mME • Aug 17, 2023
Solace wrote:
Thank you for moving the topic, the original OP did in fact deserve her space and not to have it hijacked by an alternative discussion.

The issue at heart is you escalated something beyond the substance provided. Men are messaging her. That is not harassment, it is not harassment to attempt to speak to someone you wish to speak to. Your leap to victim blaming and accusing another member of being a rape apologist when no rape or context there of was a best a radical leap in logic. It turned an innocent " I have to many messages" into "You agree with rape". She was in fact "flattered" by the attention. Her words.

If the context was the type of attention she was receiving then your argument would have been more justified. Emphasis on more because it would still have to be abusive attention. It wasn't though, it was message quantity, and flattering message quantity. There is not a rock to stand on that argues against nudity in ladies profiles resulting in more attention, and if that isn't already known by that sweet girl then someone should inform her.

We can also sit here and say victim blaming is a horrible thing, and in many instances it is terrible. However, a man who goes a construction site with out a hard hat on and gets injured should be blamed. As should the person who caused the accident. Two parties can be at fault, the one who didn't keep himself safe and the one who caused it. Both things need to be fixed. If we take the leap of logic that the messages were abusive in nature, we are still responsible as a community for educating her on how to keep herself safe from them if she wishes it. It is not her responsibility to endure abuse while the community fixes itself.


Something is wrong with the community. Okay. Its changing for the worse, alright. We need to be better, hell yes. I'm with you. People need manners, decorum and harassment needs to stop. All good things that no one in their right mind would disagree with. The previous thread was not the pulpit though. This thread could have and should have happened organically after your going to said convention. Rather than being a gotcha callout this should be a productive thread about how to improve the community with ideas and actions. Organization and follow through. You don't like the players? Make and exclusive space that plays only with vetted people. They exist, here even I've seen them. You think new members are uneducated, wonderful lets round up volunteers to take on applicants here, start a forum thread for just that. You think harassment isn't being punished, Great! Lets have a chat with staff about what that definition here is, and how we can police it.

Jumping down another members throat, and accusing them of some pretty horrid things will never promote that sort of cohesion in the community. Your first step was an attempt to socially ostracize someone. If you skip past the dialog and understanding part in such a mundane instance, how can anyone expect fair discourse here? In full point of fact it encourages people to not speak and not be "outed" in a public space.


Solace,

Did you just insinuate that if a woman gets raped, THAT IT COULE BE HER FAULT TOO? With your hard hat analogy?

You don't know what kind of messages the lady was getting.
Nudity on someones own page is an expression of themselves. Are you saying that it's an invite for rudr comments, or assholes?.
I'mME
1 year ago • Aug 18, 2023
I'mME • Aug 18, 2023
djinni wrote:
HurtSoGood wrote:
I would say, in response to djinni, that I am speaking from the perspective of someone who HAS been raped and assaulted and victim blamed and victim shamed. I’ve been scared to leave my house. I’ve been hyper conscious over my appearance so I wouldn’t “bring it on myself”. I have lived, and still do, with the repercussions of things that were done to me without my consent.

In no capacity whatsoever do I believe that any individual is “asking for it” because they have any part of their body revealed. That’s absolutely ludicrous and an absolute violation of basic human rights and decency. We all have the right to live our lives undisturbed and unmolested in whatever way we see fit without having to fear being told that we, in any way, consent to a violation of our person.

This post was addressing two separate issues tho. The first being the acceptance of victim blaming and the second being an assertion that a specific individual on this site was engaging in that.The lady that posted her breasts has every right to do so without harassment, assuming we live in an ideal world. We do not. Tho she never said she was being harassed. I wholeheartedly agree with the content in regard to the reality of victim blaming. However, the comment in question that is being remarked on was not delivered with the intent that is being attributed to it. There was no blaming or shaming conveyed, simply an observation based on the reality that we live with.

I can agree to disagree, tho for the bulk of it we are actually in agreement.


If there was no malice in that post by the other person, please explain to me how it was even relevant. Why point out that she had pictures of her breast posted? What was the end game? Lots of people jumping to the defense of this person, without giving one single validating point in their favor. Even if they thought it, it was definitely saying that she had posted the pictures to receive the attention. Think what you want but posting things that shame other women for just living, not acceptable and I’m going to call it out.


djinni,

Some people are so quick to defend males behavior, and very rarely do they stand up and say "He was wrong" or anything approaching that. It's one of my fucking peeves out here. Even the people that identify as a subs do it to a degree. I am 100% agreeing, why in the world would someone make those particular comments? They are the type comments that have intent behind them. Maybe tearing skill level Is off.

Then for someone to outright say that sometimes it is the rape victims fault too.

Makes me want to throw up. Matter of fact a little bile did rise in my mouth.

Let me say also, that it's everyenwhere
Not just on The Cage, it's on Fet also.
Now I see where someone picked up some terminology.
Solace​(dom male)
1 year ago • Aug 18, 2023
Solace​(dom male) • Aug 18, 2023
I'mME,

You're grandstanding.

I never said it was a ladies fault for being raped. I suggest you check your reading comprehension, re-read what I and others have written, slowly, word for word, out loud, several times.

I said, it was the mans responsibility to have his hard hat. An analogy to say that he is responsible for knowing how to keep himself safe and acting to keep himself safe. It is not his fault for being hurt, that blame resides with his coworker. We have the same policy in kink. Dom's keep the subs safe, but the sub is still responsible for knowing that they are being kept safe and acting to keep themselves safe. It is not a subs fault when they get hurt, but we should all be horridly ashamed of ourselves if we don't encourage and teach other people to learn and act in the interests of their own safety. This dialog that is being pushed right now, is harmful to everyone.

For these two topics threads in question...No where, anywhere has anyone said its a ladies fault for getting raped, said a topless photo is an invitation to be an asshole or even specifically defended men. These are all escalations that you and djinni have grasped without context by imputing your own bias into the discussion. I applaud djinni for taking a stand and saying rape and rape blaming are bad, because they are, but its also bad to slander others so casually. It's disservice to the people wrongly named, and a cheapening of the actual horrid acts.

You are absolutely correct that no one no knows the contents of that sweet girls message box. What you fail to grasp is you and and djinni are the only ones assuming the contents of the box. For all we know her messages are roses and chocolates, after all she left a positive review of them and nothing negative to say aside from quantity. I too believe there is a fair number of crude messages crammed in there, but it is neither my nor your right to judge the contents or what that sweet girl desired in them. Therefore there is no victim here, and there is no men to defend.

If she gets on today and say the experience is horrible, she hates it, and men are all so rude...the conversation flips. Everyone will support her. Right now there is no substance for this.
Bunnie
1 year ago • Aug 19, 2023
Bunnie • Aug 19, 2023
Whilst I do love the information shared, and do consider it be very valuable, the context in which it was shared is unfortunate. It brings to mind the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

What concerns me about situations like this, that I think those “crying wolf” don’t seem to understand, is that by lumping every little behaviour they see around them as “them!” (aka bad people doing things that are considered unacceptable), belittles the experience of those who have truly been violated (no need to pick a fight about my use of the word “truly,” in the context of this post in it’s entirety, I believe the usage is apparent). And screaming and raging about every little thing they perceive as being unacceptable, makes people actually *stop* listening… so that when it is actually really necessary for voices to be heard, they fall on deaf ears. That is a problem.

I am 100% for creating a safe space for all, acknowledging that education is a primary key in achieving that. Policing, absolutely. There’s no doubting that “crusaders” (both in history and present) believe they’re coming from a good place, however, unfortunately for us as humans, heuristics play a big part in how we view the world… which of course, as we see, creates conflict in communities (“The way I perceive things is right, you’re wrong”). This doesn’t help anyone.

If this was a singular occurrence we might say, ok, there is something to be said. However, this behaviour happens here a little too often also, yet if spoken out against, people are shamed and called apologists. Being educated doesn’t make someone “more” anything… not more morally driven, nor more “right”… it simply means you have studied something. Doing something or being part of something for a long time, doesn’t make your opinions more valid either… time spent isn’t a reflection of authority.

What I do like about this thread is that it has created some real conversation.