Submissive verses Slave

cherilynn​(sub female) • May 19, 2024

People get so confused and I use to as well.
Really though, the differences are simply to understand.
Step 1: STOP believing that submission and slavery are on some kind of sliding scale with slavery being the ultimate form of submission. This is bullshit.

A submissive desires to submit.
A slave has an innate desire to be owned, possessed if you will. We do not submit, we surrender. That is the difference.
A slave may have a submissive personality or a dominant personality like myself.
One is not greater or better than the other. Just different.

I stay far away from anyone who doesn't understand what it means to be a slave, especially one of the heart such as myself. How could he ever truly understand me and give me what I truly need?
He can't.

Master Harkin • Sep 25, 2024

It is truly sad that anyone wants to just be an object. I have had a true slave in my life once and it is magical. The connection is like two souls becoming one. Each just knows what the other needs and what they are thinking. I have missed that so much since she had to return home to China. If I were a stronger man back then I would have followed her there and figured out life.

To have the connection where your souls touch and both sides truly give into the depth with complete trust, complete openness, complete self. There is no need for worry because the slave will do anything for the Master. Yet the flip is true that the Master would move mountains for the slaves happiness. That to me is a lot of what is lost. Yes I make the decisions and I need to because that is who I am. The slave wouldn't want that because that is who she is. We fill what the other needs but the goals for both is the others safety, health, and happiness.

I don't need to even think about my own happiness because that is all she will think about. So I in return will only think of her happiness. By doing that we both strive to make each other the happiest person possible.

I really think the vanilla world could use some of that type of mindset. Maybe there wouldn't be so much divorce.

I'mME • Sep 25, 2024

Hello,

I think your summation of M/s applies to the D/s relationship as well.
Sub/slave both strive to make their respective partners happy and if M & D are both serving the relationship (their desiring the best for their sub/slave, which sometimes means sacrifice in whatever form) then sub/slave get to a level of trust, respect, adoration, love for their M/D which allows for their needs , wants, to be filled a greater possibility. A circle of you will.
But knowing each other very well is the key, a journey.

Kelpi • Sep 26, 2024

Sub or slave. I once saw both on a title. She told me she was a sub who at times needed to be treated as a slave. Took me awhile to understand her. She was far from brainless she just knew who she was and how she needed to be treated and when. I have known women who at times needed to be treated like a little girl. They just needed to be picked up held and reminded they were loved. A person knows themselves better than most. (At least I thought till I took a look at the world around me).

If you can't understand how someone feels about about themselves then walk away. It will save them time and you a headache. I once asked a woman what she was and the answer hurt my head. I can't remember it all and it hurts o think about it but it was like asking a hippie what their sign was. (I'm a Virgo with Cancer tendencies and a 1/4 Pieces with a half moon rising on the Eastern side. stopping now my head hurts.

Queer Lovemaking • Sep 26, 2024

Right, how we define ourselves matters. Submissive or slave and Dominant or Master everything can and should be negotiated. Erotic contracts are enlightened and more so between kink players.

I am a subbie but could negotiate up to slave through mutual agreement with my partner. I aim to submit to the greatest extent that I am able and comfortable to practice. Make your feelings known,

Steellover​(sub male) • Oct 7, 2024

To summerize (And this is just my opinion)

SLAVE: No-strings- attached housework. No-strings attached chores. Considered "property" much like slaves in the classical sense. Basically indentured servant. NO romance/love or affection. Little, if any, kink or fetish play.

SUBMISSIVE: May do housework and chores but, depending on the relationship, does so willingly to please their partner. NOT considered property in as strict a sense as a slave. However, still follows orders and defers to their dominant. Kink/fetish play are usually part of the dynamic. Romance, love, and affection can also be part of the relationship. In other words, less strict than a slave.

a DOMINANT plays with their submissive, and cares for them as a partner, considers them subservient, but still equal.

A MASTER orders their slave around and expects to be obeyed without question. They care for them only as property, or at best, as a boss cares for their employees. But usually not as a partner, and never as an equal. Again, there is no romance involved.

The dominant/submissive dynanic is more sensual than the Master/slave dynamic.

Bunnie • Oct 8, 2024

The closest I could come to forming any clarity around what I believed the difference to be was:

“A submissive strives to become the best version of themselves for their Dom...
Whereas a slave strives to become whatever their Master wants them to be.”

Do I still believe this? Maybe. Haven’t thought about it for a while to be honest.

Steellover​(sub male) • Oct 8, 2024

^That's not a bad way of looking at it, honestly.

Byrdie​(switch female){rl only} • Oct 9, 2024

(I wrote this about a month ago elsewhere.)

This debate had been going on long before I snuck into alt.sex.bondage on Usenet as a college student, and will be going on long after I've disappeared. I think I've found a distinction that mostly works for *me*, though I'm still mulling it over.

Mollena Lee Williams-Haas answered a question about this on Tiktok. If you want to understand what I'm going on about it, you may want to watch her clip first: https://www.tiktok.com/@mollenaleewilliamshaas/video/7402757683994037546?lang=en

While I understood her definition of D/S relationships, using her definitions I'm a bit baffled by the concept of M/S (or O/P - Owner/Property) relationships. This may just mean that I'm more on the D/S side of things, but I don't think I have to be into a thing to be able to explain it on an objective level. I want to be able to sum it up with an elevator pitch-type statement that doesn't suggest a preference, but ... gah.

This is as close as I can get:

D/S relationships are for people who value the concept of controlling and being controlled, who are turned on by the idea of bossing and being bossed, being served and serving, or even of moulding a person towards a certain ideal.

For M/S or O/P relationships, the value is in ownership. As I understand it, the closest it comes to chattel slavery is that the owned person is selected for their appealing traits or talents and putting those into service for the Master or Owner. The satisfaction comes from owning a human who is, or for being valued as, a prized possession. Slaves are not necessarily submissive by even kinky nature, and owners are not necessarily dominant in all cases.

If we ever see each other again at an event, I hope I have a chance to ask her. She seems to be incredibly busy, but who knows? Maybe one day.

Rianai​(dom agender) • Oct 11, 2024

I know for me the difference lies in a few factors. This is the model that works for me though and I've generally found my interpretation of it isn't the 'in vogue' way in the modern scene.

For me the primary measure is autonomy. How much autonomy is the sub/slave surrendering? I personally measure this in my own M/s by whether I exert conttol (or have the right to) over 'big life' elements. If I can determine what happens with finances, property, social interaction or permanent body changes then to me uou've most likely got a slave. This for me ties into the idea of authority transfer. My current slave runs everything by me unless in predefined scenarios such as unexpected absence or medical emergency where the dynamic becomes 'reduced' or even on hold. It doesn't make sense in my concept of a slave if they can just decide what they are or want to do. If I'm in a D/s I'm well aware of where I can (and cannot exert) authority.

The secondary considerations is motivation. A submissive is more likely in my experience to want a more limited scope of service than a slave. A slave will almost slways want to be proactive and looking to serve in any way big or small. A sub will probably want to in limited or specific scenarios or durations.

I don't like the notion that a sub 'evolves' into a slave. I've met subs who I respect immensely and have been in BDSM for decades who won't consider M/s or being a slave becsuse it doesn't work for them or they have no interest. It's invalidating and insulting to them in my mind to insist they must or 'should' be a slave. To do so slso diminishes the worth of dubmissives as an archetype.

They're totally different motivations and mentalities required. You can't routinely switch slaving on and off and realistically expect it to be seen as slave. However it's insanely tough to be a slave and I honestly do nog blame most s-types for not wanting to commit to that