Sexual health

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Nov 15, 2020

@justataste,
Thank you for your op and this discussion. I’m hiv poz and undetectable. I put it in all my profiles and get tested for STI’s routinely. The guy who gave it to me lied about being poz, but I have no I’ll feelings towards him or regrets. I think our cultural stigma towards STI’s promotes them. I’m not one to pursue disease, but see it it’s a hazard of sexual intimacy. I’m not willing to give up the one to try and avoid the other. My health would suffer more from that. If we destigmatize STI’s and people would get routinely test as a result, we’d have less disease.

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Nov 16, 2020

Justataste: "Having limited experience and not really having been a part of the wider "community" I wondered if there was some unwritten assumption that all involved keep themselves clean and free of disease?"

(OK so let's take the community out of it. As was already said, People DO lie. And others simply don't know or assume. For me, this isn't a community thing, it's a valuing yourself thing. I have a hard limit that condoms are worn until such time as we decide to get tested together and share our results.)

"Am I being gauche asking if someone's previous or new play partner is clean? Perhaps as a health professional I am being too clinical?"

(I would say you are being assumptive. Again, some people don't have any idea and others might lie. I dated a guy who said he had never been tested. I summarily informed him right there, that if we went to bed, he would wear condoms. period. We did and he did.

(An interesting thing is that I discuss this early on and yet a few dates (2 or 3 in) got hot and heavy and I asked if the guy had a condom. Gosh what a surprise he said he forgot. So I shut down the sex, completely. So people taking you seriously and you meaning what you say have to factor into this.)

p.s. I now have my own condoms with me. But that behavior does cost them points with me.

"I'm not talking open events where this may be some sort of requirement (?) But more intimate and potentially longer term arrangements."

(I guess you've never been to big event. Events that have dungeons also have cleaning supplies and usually condoms for your insertibles by all the equipment. No idea what you mean by requirement. Requirements are only effective if you can check for compliance and enforce the requirement.)

(The thing about testing is this... You can go get tested in the morning and contract something that afternoon so testing is only as reliable as the person getting tested.

(As far as clean goes, evaluate the entire person. Especially these days as we need to employ good hygiene all the time, every day. So if you're at someone's house and it's filthy, they are unkempt, or they complain about bed bugs etc. Use your judgment and make sure the entire person meets your standards. -Just make sure you actually have standards.- There are many levels to clean and a lot of it you can judge without asking. Then you can ask about the basics like regular checkups and if they have a healthy lifestyle. Even ask if they are taking the pandemic seriously. Very unlikely that someone who isn't clean or taking their health and cleanliness seriously are getting it right in other ways.)
.................
Thanks to those medical professionals on this thread. Your work is important and I suspect harder than ever before.

ElizaEmma​(sub female){NotLooking} • Nov 16, 2020

In order to be able to discuss STDs without the stigma, we need to get away from using the word "clean". It is also very vague, as the OP pointed out certain infections are not routinely tested. Even the CDC does not recommend testing for HSV-1 (Herpes simplex, normally just causes cold sore, but in rare cases can affect the genital area) because it is so common (an estimated 3.7 billion, or 67%, of people under age 50 have HSV-1 infection globally).

In my current relationship, we used condoms for everything, and when we decided to be monogamous, we both got tested and exchanged reports about three months after being exclusive. I also discussed with him my HPV status.

As an aside, the latest CDC guidelines are while HPV vaccines are not routinely recommended for people over the age of 26, it will allow clinicians to prescribe it for people up to the age of 45. If you think you will benefit from it, talk to your primary care clinician. I know some will even write a script for people over 45 but it is unlikely insurance will cover it, and it IS expensive. In the US you are looking at about $250 a shot. When you are older you will need a series of 3 (instead of 2 for younger people), making it a total of $750.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Nov 17, 2020

There is such a thing as being too clean. I actually saw a documentary about it once. It actually stated it's better to allow yourself to be a bit more dirty. To an extent of course.

Not all germs are harmful. That's what many people lose sight of. That there's such a thing as HEALTHY bacteria. It's SUPPOSED to be there. Nature knows better then you do. You don't actually have to shower every day like people would tell you. In fact, if you don't allow a bit then you could potentially risk causing your immune system to be weaker in your later years. You're fine unless you happen to be someone that has a very weak immune system in general.

Soldiers had to go a week without even changing their boxers in the field. In older wars. And they had to fight in mud. Obvious violent dangers aside, they came out fine. Unless it was something like constant marching which gets blisters on your feet (that's why fresh shoes were a big deal). Basically, if the body feels it, that's the sign to deal with it. Unless it's "just a smell". But if you FEEL it physically, even slightly, pay attention.

If this is about actually having a "gross kink" there are some people into that. I don't actively seek it out myself. As for smells, you just get used to that. it's why you stop noticing how your partner smells when you live with them for so long. The body just adapts to it.

The only real thing to look out for are things like making sure your lower area remains clean enough. If my dick so much as tickles or I feel the foreskin struggling to slide back or notice anything even remotely yellow then that's most definitely a time to clean that. If that happens to you don't panic. It's basically the equivalent of an oil leak. Deal with it as soon as it's noticed and you're fine. You can do that in a bath of course, but that would mean having to wait while your dick could potentially remain "irritated". If I notice this I actually put water in the sink and (I can't believe I'm saying this) put my dick in the sink. Carefully pulling the foreskin back and lightly stroking off any fluid buildup. It will mostly be at the base of the head of the penis. That's what a male can do at least. If the sink is too high then you can use a mug (one I'll never drink from). Females have to "get in there" a bit more, so that complicates things. It's likely more a health concern for them due to not having such "easy access". Us males can basically rub it off and shake it off but women can't do that. Seriously, how do you women deal with something like that if it happens?

I've also been thinking about watersports and scat. I'd advise against consuming any shit. Watersports I can't quite figure out. Piss is acidic but so is pineapple juice. Get a docs advice on that account I guess.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Nov 17, 2020

Thank you for this. "Clean" harkens back to the days of Jesus when lepers had to ring a bell and announce that they were "unclean." i wrote my prior post on the fly, was at work on a quick break, but i think the topic of STI's needs some serious unpacking.

i'm a critical care nurse in a teaching hospital. Easily 85% of the patients i care for have life threatening, and often multiple co-morbitities, that are related to lifestyle (read: "diet"). Most heart disease, stroke, type two diabetes, is diet related, preventable, and in many cases, reversible. Reversible through diet. i have a great deal of education on this topic, certification through Cornell University on reversing disease through diet. i'm a scientist and practice evidence based medicine. You wanna kick someones sacred cow, try talking to them about the food they eat lol. (btw, i am not talking quantity or weight here, i'm talking types of food)

Here's my point. A lot of sex, at least the kind where one can get STI's, is about putting 'stuff' in the body. Diet kills far more people than STI's do, eating is not stigmatized like sex is. There are segments of culture that do stigmatize sex. Much like sexism, or many phobias, a lot of attitude towards sex is unconscious. Both involve natural needs/drives.

The truth is, the frequent sausage one puts in their mouth poses far more risk of disease and death than the cock one puts in their mouth, or other body orifices.

Many diseases, and the virus or bacteria that causes them, are contagious before symptomatic. Some do not even have symptoms in everyone. Yet, we do not expect, or even think to ask our sex partners to be swabbed for the flu before kissing them, let alone having sex with them.

i'm not suggesting that we should be cavalier about STI's. i think the solution is not 'safe sex' but making it safer to be who we are. If society was progressive about sex and not stuck in the dark ages, we could have social programs where every person who has sex routinely gets tested and treated. It's the lack of testing and treatment that makes STI's such a huge issue. Most STI's are curable, and HIV can be prevented or controlled with a daily pill.

i think if the stigmas against sex were socially addressed, STI's would become a minimal issue.

Okay, stop and consider your (automatic) emotional response to that last sentence. It made me blush a little, like i was being a bit risqué writing i. It's great to have a community like this where we can write and discuss topics like this freely, eh? Being a kinkster doesn't necessarily remove (or expose?) the effects of a lifetime of cultural conditioning, so it is wonderful and healthy to discuss things that we've been conditioned against emotionally, and mentally in some cases.

MrFulmen • Nov 17, 2020

This!

Having an STI doesn't make someone "dirty." But having unexamined prejudices around STIs can lead you to worry too much about minor "dirty" risks and not enough about bigger risks that aren't stigmatized.

Right now I'm watching idiots promoting sex parties and making a big deal about how all attendees must be tested for HSV. `Cause, y'know, you wouldn't want to risk getting some dirty sex disease, but risking a nice clean non-sexual virus is fine. Never mind that HSV is nothing but a skin rash and Covid will kill your grandma.

ElizaEmma​(sub female){NotLooking} • Nov 17, 2020

Even within a religious context, it never ceases to amaze me how people pick and choose. Gluttony and sloth, along with lust, belong to the seven deadly sins. In the US we do not wish to discuss sexuality and sexual health, yet gluttony is not only OK, but seems to be being promoted. People who proclaim to "love sports" (but in reality they only love to *watch* sports) often park themselves in front of the TV, eating all sorts of unhealthy foods while being bombarded by advertisement of more unhealthy foods. Even at church events people seem to consume a mind boggling amount of food ...

I am in complete agreement that we need to prioritize, such that many more people die of heart disease than STDs, and right now the public health impact of COVID outweighs that of STDs, but since this is a kinky website, I wish to return to the point that we need to be able view and talk about STDs just like any other diseases, objectively and scientifically consider the health implications without any archaic emotions such as shame.

OraclePollon​(sub female){NotYours} • Nov 17, 2020

Yeah,

Let's stop the fear to even talk about it. I found out a sexual partner had herpes... after we had sex. But that is okay because they weren't transmissable at the time? Heck no.

You have to start looking out for yourself, people will lie. This is one of the easiest things to "lie" about, so unless the person you are talking to has never lied (spoiler they have. There is no 100 track record) This is the easiest thing to omit and lie about. You need to shield yourself from it. Also not easy. People end up in situations they don't want to be in because they are too embarrassed to ask, or say no, or stop the situation. Do you know how many people still have sex because of peer pressure? Because they have gotten to this spot and just dont want to say no and be a bother? Well add into that tye roulette of who you are having sex with.

I myself prefer to have sex without a condom. Right from the get go, it is a preference. But I also ask about testing and STDs and I still am nervous the first time, cause they could be a liar. Nothing is more fun than showing up to your first date with a clean bill of health just to find out they didn't do their part. I also don't have one night stands or put myself in vulnerable situations, cause that stuff is not a game. It is a one and done and can affect you for the rest of your life. And though there is zero disrespect for people who walk that path now for whatever reason, it is something I will choose to be extremely vigilant on, and still I am not as cautious as I should be. Not even close.

Anyways. Never be embarrassed or shamed because you want too much information. That is like not using a condom and assuming the other person is on birth control. Sure let's just fuck around with the possibility of pregnancy. I dont use condoms, and NEVER had a guy asked me if I was on birth control... like... maybe I am trying to have your baby and take your money? I am over 30 after all!!! Cmon ppl!!

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Nov 17, 2020

OraclePollon wrote: "You have to start looking out for yourself, people will lie. This is one of the easiest things to "lie" about, so unless the person you are talking to has never lied (spoiler they have. There is no 100 track record) This is the easiest thing to omit and lie about. You need to shield yourself from it. Also not easy. People end up in situations they don't want to be in because they are too embarrassed to ask, or say no, or stop the situation. Do you know how many people still have sex because of peer pressure? Because they have gotten to this spot and just dont want to say no and be a bother? Well add into that tye roulette of who you are having sex with. "

i have no experience hooking up in the straight world. It's a pretty common thing in the gay world. Most of the gay sites are hook up sites and most of them provide a separate profile designation: "HIV status."

In spite of it being 2020 and everyone having access to Google, i am often chagrinned at the naivety and ignorance of way too many people. i recently read a profile of a guy on a gay hook up ap: "HIV and STD free, you should be too." Tested neg 11/19." Call me cynical, but i simply do not believe this guy has gone without sex for a year, covid not withstanding.

Again, my only experience with hook up or fuck buddy sex is in the gay community (read: "all guys"), but i have to wonder if, gay or not, the "guy" thing factors into this? i have had a ton of anonymous sex with guys, and i do not doubt that many of those guys have been on the DL and are in relationships with women.

So, ditto: "people will lie." The only way to know if a person is STD free is to have them chained up somewhere to ensure they are monogamous and then have them tested. Everything else is pretty much trust. So many believe, or want to believe, that if they tested neg for STD's two weeks ago, they are still neg. But the only way for that to be 100% true, is if they have had NO sex in that time period. The most 'responsible' of sexually active people get tested every three months... have they gone without sex during that time? Then there is no guarantee they are STD free, even if they are truly monogamous, because no one can 100% guarantee their partner is monogamous unless they are chained up in the basement.

Not meaning to be disparaging of anyone here, or cynical, just real. A piece of paper with test results does not forego the element of trust.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Nov 17, 2020

You know as well as I do that there are people that will never ever lie because of the pain and suffering they not only endured but also caused others. I know you know this. Which is also why I know you just lied to yourself by pretending no one is always honest. Some people value responsibility and choice to that extent. The irony is that it's often the monsters that value this. Not the people that claim moral high grounds.

Unfortunately we can't stop people assuming the worst without proof. But that's your own doubt in that person you engage with. You either trust them or you don't. If they see you as someone you're not then flee/avoid you then that's them lying not only to you (inside their own head at least) but also themselves. Can I just take a moment to say it really sucks when someone acts like they know you when they don't have a clue? I do that too of course but at least I PROVE it with logic. Provided someone STICKS AROUND. However, I'm not about to justify myself. If I show I have a brain, know more about someone then they know themselves, and point out where my observations have been accurate when they were careless then that's enough to be trusted. At least in regards to always speaking the truth and being honest.

I know people often are what they complain about. Observant as I am it's clear to me you mistrust easily. I suspect this leads to avoiding people and NOT trying to find answers with them. Finding answers when you're around someone is one thing. You're willing to be proven wrong. I can respect that. But you contradict yourself in this quality any time you go "I already know the truth" when you do not.

Answers and proof is one thing. Doubt and assumptions is another. Be aware but avoid assumptions in the FIRST place. Or you ARE a liar. At best we can only speculate. At worst people choose to be ignorant and careless. Or otherwise do it out of pure habit.

Personally, condoms are a libido killer. I will neither justify or prove myself in this account. All I will say is that if someone is looking after my needs I'm damn sure appreciating them. Yea yea, it's a lot of pressure. But I have to handle pressure in many matters too.

Now, me aside, and knowing some people might kill themselves if they find themselves to be an unfit farther (seriously, just let them give the child to a foster home if they're like that. It's bad for the kid too) then my thought process is what could happen if someone happens to find themselves having a kid despite best efforts to avoid it. In this case let's say the kid is born already. If one or both parents involved consider themselves "unfit" then what can be done about the child involved? Like, is there some sort of "Adoption fee" where you have to pay just to have the kid in a safer environment? Pretty sure the law won't just go "If you consider yourselves unfit due to being depressed from not being kinky in your personal life". This actually raises some concerns. Nothing related to me but I really do have to wonder about how the kid involved will end up being affected considering I've known people with bad parents.

I suppose you could always try to find some people that want to adopt who want to have a kid of their own. There is that I guess. But if that's not possible then what are you left with?