Rose's Thorns.

Max Heathen​(other male) - 💯% agreed.

JustGreenie - AMEN! Too much petty behavior and using Feminism to hide behind their own insecurities is sad in all aspects. We need to love, admire and enjoy what being a woman encompasses as a whole. That is why I stay away from such people, I am not wasting my time on petty behaviors.

rosethorn​(sub female) - Its really exhausting to deal with and thing is its everywhere... its so Petty your right

I'mME - Feminism at 60 years of age is nothing like feminisms with people your age. I am in between your age and the 60 yr olds you bring up. I don't co sider myself a feminist anymore , I don't want to be associated with what I see going on out in the public and on social platforms. All men suck, are misogynistic. These women hate men. I don't hate anyone, that takes mucho energy.

I do however have respect for women before me that stood and fought for equality which still is not across the board. Lately I have given much thinking to whether the words equity needs to be included or should equity be substituted for equality.

I don't know if your post is directed at something to do with kink or work or another situation , or if knowing would even change what I'm going to write.

I read your frustration, and it sounds a personal since you named a particular number. Then you write pretty much are saying all old women.
You do realize what or how different things are between the time periods that the 60 yr old and you come from?

They worked in very hostile environments , rarely getting any directions or advice except how to make someones coffee. They jumped in feet first and figured shit out , without mental health days , never equal benefits , and still went home and most likely cooked supper, bathed and took care of children, then took care of their partner.
Your generation and their generation completely different communication styles.

Respect is a 2 way street. If someone is upset about something , sometimes it's okay to be compassionate even if you think they have psychological problems, maybe they are mad about something and crying is their way of releasing that anger, so that they don't reach out and kick someones ass.

rosethorn​(sub female) - Unfortunately the hostile work environment i now experience and harrasment is from other women not men, as for equality i think we got there and over corrected via micromanagement... that doesn't mean there are not differences or disparities still to work with. But context is important most women choose jobs working with other people while men tend to choose jobs based on working with objects.

This comment with regards to age, is frankly something i noticed more pronounced in older women... im not really sure why but ive noticed it in younger women too. ..

I don't consider it feminism... its like a form of passive aggressive behaviour that hides behind it as an excuse.

As for 'equity' its interesting to see what has been achieved my family member is convinced going back to work was an 'achievement' yet most women what to stay home with their kids and instead other women made it easier for employers demand they go back to work sooner because you know... 'empowerment'.

Be careful they don't sell you snake oil or your own disadvantages as 'empowerment' or 'equality' you will be stuck there forever marketing is Powerful.

Its interesting that contraception is considered women's liberation when actually it just gave men a way to get some consequence free... that doesn't make it a bad thing it's just interesting to see how some of these are framed or put across to women. .

Why does modern feminism mean acting like a rather than embracing what a woman and femininity

rosethorn​(sub female) - Also the going back to work was 2 weeks after a c section so no i don't think thats a good idea health wise when its a physical job

I'mME - I like some of your points. Very insightful. I'm at the store. Be back later.

rosethorn​(sub female) - No rush, hope you're having a good day... its always interesting to share perspectives and listen to others. Thank you for sharing

rosethorn​(sub female) - I just want to add that working-class women have always worked wasn't just around the 50s and 60s it existed in the Victorian era as well it was only upper and middle class that didn't work.
We're not the first generation to Jump in first and work it out on the go I really appreciate it if others stop assuming that my generation has it easy because Every Generation of working-class women has worked, even in the edwardian era... the jobs where just different it was not just the 50s 60s and 70s. Im not saying it was easy but working class have always worked...

rosethorn​(sub female) - Also i said 'use feminism' because some not all hide behind it as a way to bully others. Rather than embrace feminity and womanhood as part of feminism

BikerWilly - I LOVE your idea about EQUITY, rather than equality! Equity implies JUSTICE and FAIRNESS, which is the least that everyone should receive. Equality to me is NOT that great. It just means that women get screwed over like men do. What's great about that? I think everyone demanding justice and fairness is a far better yardstick than equality.

Blondie​(sub female){Collared} - It shows a person’s true character when they rejoice in other’s pain and heartache. Their petty jealousy shows through and those that tolerate and encourage it are just as bad, if not worse. I say let them be and be happy!

rosethorn​(sub female) - Absolutely and so many convince themselves they are in the right with very little understanding of the pain caused to others around them.... sadly often get an empowerment kick out of it

Defender​(dom male) - An interesting take on modern feminism.
And a good point that some women have always had to do paid work - who ran the industrial weaving looms in Victorian factories...?

Whilst one does tend to get grumpier as one gets older, I don't think it is safe to generalise about all older women. There must surely be kind and understanding older women too?

Hmm, as I type I am realising something:
I am a supposedly "grumpy old man" yet I am usually very tolerant of younger females (if they behave respectfully).
But am much quicker to be intolerant of younger males.
So maybe its a gender, as well as age thing.
Are these grumpy old women you mention, more amenable and tolerant of younger males than younger females, or do they behave like that with everyone?

rosethorn​(sub female) - Interesting that it could be across the genders and age gaps and im sure men get it on the other side from men and women being disrespectful... my comments are not on 'feminism' in the blog although i bring it up because of how many bullies seem to use it as a shield

Im not generalising that this is all older women but i do find it more among older women although there are definitely younger ones too ..
Its more about how women treat each other and the passive aggressive behaviour towards other women the cry bully attitude and honesty masculine style aggression towards other women they see as competition

Stuffing over other women's job opportunities work and family through stability

MsDove​(sub female){Eternal Pi} - As a 68 year old feminist (and submissive), I have to say age has nothing to do with it. Treating people with disrespect is a character flaw that crosses generations, political beliefs, etc. It usually speaks to having had a rough life where the person was mistreated themselves and created a persona to combat that mistreatment. It's a miserable way to live. Some people never do the healing necessary to greet the world in a kinder fashion. That's not excuse for bad behavior. But recognize it for what it is. Their lashing out is about them, not about you. What IS about those of us who cross their paths, is how we deal with it. If it's someone of no consequence in my life, I ignor it. If it's someone like a boss, I try to find common ground. There is always some common ground as a starting point.

MsDove​(sub female){Eternal Pi} - I wanted to add... I had a boss who was a passive aggressive, vindictive woman who was never happy unless someone was in her crosshairs. After 5 years of obseving her behavior, it was "my turn". I never was able to find a path around her. It wasn't for lack of trying. I left that job.

rosethorn​(sub female) - Its interesting how everyone keeps focusing on age i said 'some of these women are 60' and too old to act so immature.... so passive aggressive.

Its a stark contrast but it again 'some' not all ... there are younger ones too but ironically your proving my point for me in the comments

SirTOuTOO{~ 2u2 ~} - With those who vigorously promote & practice 'pseudo equality' under the banner of 'modern-feminism'.... they are making men - walk away.
.
Not just in relationships, but all workplace & social activities... as there is also a built in sense of (unjustified) 'entiltement' attached to their persona. (read - attitude )
.
It has become so extreme & widespread that a backlash is starting to occur.... as women (*post 32 yrs or divorced ) start to regain their 'disgraced femininity' .... realising there are no males willing to take them on.
.
The damage will take longer to rectify... as the legal consequences embedded over the past 30+years due to female 'social activism'... will become nulled.. due to men not longer interacting with what could be considered 'toxic females'.
.
Yes,.. the distinctiin of equity, in contrast with equality will help.
Yes,... Women openly regaining and acting on their femininity, will also help.
.
Steve
2u2

rosethorn​(sub female) - Other women are finding it difficult around them too. They often demand others make the same sacrifices in their lives to justify to themselves it was necessary... absolutely miserable being on the receiving end nothing is good enough

SirTOuTOO{~ 2u2 ~} - -@ROSE
Couldn't agree more,... and if you, as a full-blooded feminine woman sense it,.. imagine how it's been for guys.
- Gladly, with women like yourself - en mass - the balance will be restored and 'strong decisive masculinity' will also return. ( to care, control & protect them)
.

rosethorn​(sub female) - Honestly its not how i was raised but im trying... i recognise that it doesn't make me happy

I'mME - SirTOuTOO,

What is your definition of femininity ?

I'mME - I apologize for not coming back, I see that the comments grew. I will say that I was disappointed to see your comment @rosethorn about a comment proving your point.
You singled out a group and someone disagrees with it, that is not someone being in a bad mood or cranky. That is the stuff that discussions are made of.
You wrote your thoughts and then others wrote their thoughts. I'm unclear as to what you expected when you single out a group. Answering that was not proving what you said was accurate. That is one of the things that is different between your generation and the 60 plus women . We examine something and try to figure out a solution, your generation seems to relabel something so that it fits the crime being alleged. (I am predicating this thought on that we are different generations, but I'm not sure your age)

rosethorn​(sub female) - I never singled out a group i said 'some of these women are 60 acting this way' i do find it interesting how people focus on that because my point is it applies to most women and its something women don't often talk about...women tearing each other down accross all age ranges my point is that sone of this behaviour is child like and belongs in secondary school... its very odd to watch mature women who should know better act in such an undignified way. Many seem to think im having a go at older women in general rather than highlighting how they should know better at that age and lead by example rather than act like a teenager, this is based on ky real life experience and an encounter i have had ... this is *some* not all as I have repeatedly said yet seems to be consistently ignored and twisting my words to fit a stereotype or assumptions held by the individual commenting rather that considering that woman being supportive of other women would be more beneficial, rather than vindictive

Bullying amongst women by other women is something many people don't feel able to talk about .. if its a guy there is no issue discussing it.

The irony is im actually talking about a real life encounter i had with an older women who could have been kind and friendly and taught me a lot but instead decided to be as challenging to deal with as humanly possible... this is the third time in a year ive had a similar situation happen and yes it occurs in younger women too but many older women believe they had to sacrifice a lot for work..and expect younger ones to do the same thing and more, no questions asked, its partly why bullying behaviour runs rampant... the sad thing is it doesn't have to be that way... its also interesting because many women have left the workforce...the passive aggressive bulling that occurs between women of all ages not just sixty year olds but thats the general age of management 50s and 60s that woman was an out and proud feminist... it is an actual person I have worked with ... ive come across two others very similar so make of that what you will... the last one i met is a manager but enjoys family so doesn't make you choose.. she is sixty too but he attitude is completely different and much better work environment... its not about age its about attitude although i had hoped at some point we could have left the high school bully culture at school. So no im not singling out any one generation over another... despite others reading into what ive said and making inaccurate assumptions about meaning behind it rather than the actual words written.

Im talking about an issue ive had in real life with other women... that doesn't make it a general discussion about generations although thats exactly what you have done in your comment. Used it as a generational argument rather than look at it in the context of a person's experience.

'My generation seems to rebel something that fits the crime being alleged'

There is no crime being alleged... its an experience based on a real world encounter that i find odd.

Its interesting you accused me of stereotype generations when thats exactly what you have done about mine. You can find my age on my profile if you want to look.

The 60s and 70s was all about rebellious behaviour and absence of responsibility... so... im not sure how my generation is supposed to contrast with that... and again not all people, however you had no issues taring my entire generation as 'rebellious'.

I don't like discussing generations in this way and one of my aims was to discuss the situation of female bullying and passive aggressive behaviour as well as reputation destruction that some women do and you can find a really good example of this in the public arena was Amber Heard.

Because although men have had a difficult time women do too... sadly from other women... the behaviour is extremely challenging to be on the receiving end of... i strongly suspect this is why a lot of women left the workplace over the last year or two as well as other factors.

I'mME - rosethorn,
In my post to you at the beginning did I or did I not write a few sentences addressing whether this was a work thing , a personal thing or what and whether it made any difference. If I knew. Check it out, I did.
You wrote what you wrote. You made the post, nobody here is or was making up what you wrote. They are responding to what you wrote. I don't understand why you have consistently denied what you wrote. It stuck out like a sore thumb. That's why people commented on it. The comments are right on point. Nobody has been ugly , a bully , cranky or difficult , the only evidence I see is you denying what you wore them turning around and insulting once again. I'm pretty sure you know what passive-aggressive means, and seems like that is what you are doing.
I distinguished your generation from my funeral. Because they are different , how you are going to take that and turn it into something snarky implies you really don't understand how you initiated some of the comments in this direction by your own words or you are deliberately being obtuse. There could be another reason that I am missing , if so point it out.
The term bully does not apply in this discussion. If you feel that is what went on at your job , that's sucks. If your boss expected certain work habits our of you that's is not a case of bullying, you were given a of what your job entailed when hired, correct? I would agree with the thought that there are plenty of people in managerial positions that I would not let manage my farm animals. It's a huge problem in work spaces, or kills morale and affects employee turnover. I have not done any research on how it breaks down male / female but I will tell you what I my thoughts are in this particular area. I'd you find yourself going for another job there are things you can do to try and check out the atmosphere at the perspective company. (I did read that you were working under much better conditions now) if you are interested I would be happy to give you all of the little ways you can do that.
I came to the conclusion some years ago that life is too short for me to spend time being miserable meaning working for an asshole. I don't advocate quitting a job before having another one unless you just like life on the wild side. Some people do. (as much time as people spend at work)

The fact that it was older women that were hard asses is at best coincidental. How many jobs have you had, that's the math part of me talking. But in your post you took some experiences and made a blanket statement . You got to know that is what stuck out in your post. Then you kept backtracking until you made that snark comment . It was snarky, then you turn around in your answer to me and start picking my comment apart.

If this is the behavior that you showed the two managers that were a-holes I can imagine a potential conflict on the job. When a person does
not taking accountability or is unable to see where they may have contributed to a situation, is very frustrating to even the most even tempered people. But throw someone in the mix that is short on patience (and you never know what is happening personal wise with people unless they tell you. Death, grief, sick aging parent, sick child, maybe they themselves have something physical going on.

You wanted to talk about bullying behavior. I don't care that word.bc it's way overused.
There can be a mentality in offices or what have you with women and men or different divisions . Office people thumbing their noses at say warehouse people. Just an example. I have seen a lot of fucked up behavior on the job, be exhausted when I leave. I hate that type of thing and never ever have participated in it in elementary school, Jr high, and it may have gone on in high school but I was working the day I entered high as a freshman. While i was friendly with all the different groups, jocks, heads, Preppies, cheerleaders , nerds (probably aren't divided out like that now) but by then if was known that if trouble ceme my way , let's take it outside . That may sound strange to you, but it did wonders for dispelling negative energy and setting the universe back to rights. That was not bullying. That was. people who had a disagreement.
I will say this right here and now, I'm on another platform with quite a large population . There is this idea out here now and the age range is late 20's through 30's who have taken upon themselves to kink shaming others, finding the Nazis calling people racist , and basically harassing many people. They happen to set their sites on me a week ago. All because I wouldn't play someone's silly little baiting me game. I got the best of them with very few words. Would you consider that bullying. Because I wouldn't . My suggestion for people is to know who you are trying pick a fight with or have a go at. I see it all the time, here and online everywhere . There are many people who don't play those games, and I'm one of them. Someone bites me, I just may turn around and show them how I bite. Guess what, those people don't like that, often they run screaming for some kind authority figure to step in and punish me or people like me .

I'm always confused when this happens. Are people expected to roll over, not express an opinion, or handle business ,?

Bc as I see it, your post point blank stated older women. It had a tone to it. I'm not going to explain that.
A couple people , I guess with me it makes a couple meely answered you with something like well I don't think it's a particular age group that has the a monopoly on cranky or somerhing along those lines. 8n every single I stance you dipped on what you wrote . I'm not sure how you could be snarky after Ms Doves post. But I knew that it was directed at more than her. She even herself brought up a job situation . Always back to I didn't , I don't ......
I'm suspecting that the issues on the job had nothing to do with women over 60.

You are correct in that leaders should mentor . But there is also a learning curve on a job.

I'm just exasperated after re-reading your comment back to me for the 5th time.

Peace out