Dirty Pretty Things

SweetStarling - I completely understand what your saying. 🤷♀️

ButterfliesAndCuffs​(sub female) - I don’t buy into the “submission is a gift” idea either. I wrote a blog on my thoughts a while back which to summarize says that it’s the dynamic that is the gift.

Literate Lycan​(dom male) - "It's the dynamic that is the gift!" Brilliant! Just going to sit here and drink my coffee while I absorb this.

I'mME - The concept was not meant in the way that you are thinking of it Snow.

It's what it has been turned into too.

The concept originally meant that you held a Dominant in such high esteem, and kneeling (analogy) was your way of honoring.

It wasn't meant as, I'm so special and I am the gift!

Does that make sense?

-my damn words are flying around, I lost my net.

Innocent Me​(sub female){Protected} - I would love to hear an elaboration. <3

Sweet Minx​(sub female){NotLooking} - Interesting, I've not heard of it presented that way. I still dont think I would refer to it as a gift tho

Innocent Me​(sub female){Protected} - Preach it, girl!! <3

I'm with ya'll in that I don't like to call it a gift or say it has to be 'earned'. That's my personal opinion on most things, including trust. I give everyone a certain amount of trust, it's up to that person to either build on it or betray it. I will act accordingly to what they decide to do. With my submission, it was something I wanted to give...I didn't feel he had to 'earn it'. I gave a certain amount and his actions dictate whether I willingly give more or take it back. It's a dance between the two of us, a beautifully honest dance.

ReanaP​(sub female){Spoken for} - I love that we are so close and have such different views points, it keeps our friendship full of debates and interesting

You know I see it as a gift, clearly in my post the other day, but let me explain how I think is the best way to share my opinion

As an individual I am extremely independent, well organised, a genuine leader, you know my job role and what kind of personality that requires, I have to be very strong willed and essentially very masculine for it

Here is an analogy. ..
To me It's like trusting someone to drive my car, my car is something that I have worked hard for and paid off and taken care of, I know how I drive it
I don't know the other person's driving skill, do I know they drive safely, do no I know they'll be able to hear when my clutch isn't sounding right, or that they will be able to tell where it's very sensitive bite point is that they can drive without revving too much or stalling the vehicle nevermind if I trust they're not gonna drive it straight off a bridge or through a wall because their not paying attention to the road.

I'm not going to give my key to just anyone, I will first maybe let them drive it a short distance whilst I'm in the car to the shops, and eventually more, and one day I leave my key in the side for them to take it as they please asking they let me know because that is a built trust, however the gift is where I give them the spare key and I let them treat the car as their own
So one day when someone can and does show to me that they can over power me (and not in a physical way) or show me their authority , and proves they can protect me where I feel so safe enough to naturally want to forfeit my independence and leadership, and they trigger my femininity, giving up that level of autonomy and me making myself vulnerable is my gift

In truth, I dont want to be a leader (atleast not all of the time) but I've always been raised as "if you want something done you have to do it yourself", if someone can prove to me they can do the job then I will hand over the keys

So the level of time that I am with them when they take the small controls and I give up a piece at a time, that is them earning me

Also, just a side note, referring to myself as a gift is like a mantra, it improves my self confidence, especially when I doubt my worth

People always say "they don't deserve you" so by that quote surely, deserving = earning

ReanaP​(sub female){Spoken for} - Oh I did however forget to add, gifts and favours can be rejected, and having that gift accepted by the right Dom is also a privilege.

If I can find the right Dom for me who I feel so comfortable and safe with to give him my car key (neck for a collar) and transfer ownership to me and that car be looked after better then I could after it, and the new driver (dominant), then that is a privilege to me, and so the Dom earns the way to getting the car, I however then need to earn him wanting to keep the car

I know my analogy is very objectified in a way and that doesn't work for everyone

Submission is different for all people, but this is my views, I should added this earlier but I fell back to sleel💤

Max Heathen​(other male) - For me, as I look down upon my slave, bound and gagged, squealing and crying beneath the flail and clamps. She sees me as the one pulling pain into pleasure, trusting I know what I'm doing and that I'll be able to tell when I need to stop. Thus she can ride the experience unhindered to the hopeful escalation of explosion and then "sub space"...
For me: I'm watching the color of her skin so circulation isn't cut off, I'm watching her breathing so I don't "break her" with pain, sending her into panic. I'm planning every strike so the hit doesn't exceed what she can handle, I'm listening to changes in her screams and cries of pleasure pain. I'm changing where I strike so the body can adapt and fresh areas keep the old from going numb as the endorphins kick in. I've learned where to place my palms and fingers for a choke that causes auto erotic asphyxiation without collapsing the wind pipe or cutting off the blood flow through the arteries.
I am licensed in CPR and keep it updated, I've learned how to suture and stitch. I know advanced first aid and home studied psychology so I can do better after care on more than just the body.
What one sees as a gift, I see as a high maintenance responsibility that I willingly accept.
As much as I enjoy what I do, the trade is in no ways fair. If I am to have physical pleasure, I'll have to end what I'm doing and for me, by that time I've spent so much energy and attention on keeping them "safe" that I'm not even with an erection... Of which is also up to me to achieve in said situation and maintain.
If I fuck up, I can lose them in the dynamic, or physically by them walking away or worse case scenario, death. I can cause psychological damage that years won't fix without therapy. And in the end, what one is "gifting" isn't even reliable because it has to be gifted every time... Which means it was taken back soon as she is finished...
To me,
I am not giving a Gift to my Slave by being their Master despite all the training and work I do in the dynamic. I am simply their Master and they are my Slave. Each playing a part that requires the other.
This doesn't speak to the mutual trust, respect or mutual pleasure. It is something to consider and contemplate when saying Gift.

Sweet Minx​(sub female){NotLooking} - I am still thinking before i respond lol

Solace​(dom male) - A well phrased post Minx, thank you for adding it to the community.

The concept of submission being a gift is a semi-romantic ideal that appeals to people. Its also a metaphor that allows people to relate it to consensual part of dynamics that is foundational. Functionally it is also an effective boost to a persons confidence to conceptualize that they have this special thing to give, especially to someone they care for who they trust will value it.

However, at least to myself, its disingenuous when used publicly and not intimately. Phrases like "I am a gift" or "my submission is a gift" seems to assign large value to mere existence which is simply untrue. If a sub and their Doms dynamic could be weighed on a scale it gives the impression of the sub starting with a significant weight in their favor that the Dom must put considerable and consistent effort to match. Thus publicly those phrases are a semi-immediate turn off for myself. Used privately and intimately I do see the effort ladies I care for put in and thus I do see it as a gift, much the same as I trust they see my attentions and efforts as gift in return.

A more appropriate phrase might be that submission is a tribute, which has roots of honor, respect, and duty woven in. However the word tribute has lost its touch on society, and at least for myself it has a significant negative connotation within the lifestyle. Seeing it on a profile without immediate and proper context is not only a red flag but red tape.

Sweet Minx​(sub female){NotLooking} - I missed you! And your wisdom. The part you wrote about it seeming like the submissive starts with a significant amount of weight in their favor was exactly what I was trying to say. But you were so much more eloquent haha.

Solace​(dom male) - I don't know about any wisdom I own. I was told that means knowing not to put tomatoes in a fruit salad, but the head does wonder about trying it.

Sweet Minx​(sub female){NotLooking} - Eww you did not just say that. Tomatoes in a fruit salad is just nasty.

Solace​(dom male) - You have no idea what fruit I use. The salad could be well spoiled long before the tomatoes. Likely they're an improvement.

Solace​(dom male) - Comment deleted by poster.

Jack in the box -
Thats it! Now youve done it! This time youve gone too far!
How dare you! 😠

😁

How was your bath? Bubbly?

Max Heathen​(other male) - *Stands and applause*. If I wrote this, there would all kinds of outrage and attacks. Accusations of how much of an asshole I am.
Thank you for a blog well written, SnowMinx. I'm not sure I could have worked the statements and questions better.

Innocent Me​(sub female){Protected} - ...but, you are an asshole. :)

<3

Max Heathen​(other male) - 🤣 damn straight 🤣

<3

Innocent Me​(sub female){Protected} - And somehow, you still became one of my favorite people on here hahaha

Literate Lycan​(dom male) - I am outraged that you did NOT write this. . . I mean, good answer my friend. 🤣

Max Heathen​(other male) - 🤣🤣

Sweet Minx​(sub female){NotLooking} - Thank you. Noones come at me with pitchforks yet lol

Are you lowkey calling me an sshole Max? 😅😅

Max Heathen​(other male) - Meeeee? Minx, 😇 I'm as innocent as the day is long... In Alaska... During the Winter. 😂😈

Literate Lycan​(dom male) - I concur wholeheartedly. Instead of a "gift" I think more that who I interact with is a "treasure" to me. Someone of inestimable value with what they offer and what they bring to the dynamic. Just like I should see my self-worth and rise to the occasion to deserve someone that I treasure.

I agree with the description provided above by I'mMe, where the term itself has perhaps warped from its original intention. Submission isn't the gift, neither is Dominance. I absolutely loved what ButterfliesAndCuffs wrote regarding the Dynamic being the true gift.

But this goes hand in hand with my perspective that both parties hold the power in the dynamic to make it work or make it fail, or end it when it is time. I hate the trope that the submissive holds all the power. It degrades the foundation of the power exchange. Both parties should be of worth.

nettiK - As a new submissive with very little experience, the idea of offering my submission as a gift to begin a dynamic and knowing I have the ultimate power to stop a scene during the dynamic seems appropriate and reassuring. However, I can understand with more experience and growth within the LS these feelings may change.

Sweet Minx​(sub female){NotLooking} - Is it actually a gift if you expect something in return? It sounds pretty though for sure.

Everyone always should have the right to stop a scene a scene at anytime. That's what safe words are for :)

nettiK - Yes, I think it's OK to present a gift and hope for something in return 😊

Sweet Minx​(sub female){NotLooking} - No disrepect meant but I would not give a gift in hopes it be returned. Gifts are freely given without expectation of anything in return (as per the dictionary definition anyways). Thats why I dont feel submission IS a gift. Its a trade.

Jack in the box -
Omg woman, will you stop changing your . . . . That ones hot 😏

Sweet Minx​(sub female){NotLooking} - I couldn't remember which one I had up lol this is just me

nettiK - My hope would be appreciation, excitement and acceptance.

DaddyDrago{LilAmethys} - I have written on this before as well.

The original reason this idea of "gift" became popular was to present s types as more 'human' in the community. There was a time (at least in certain circles) that s types were seen more as a commodity, or an object.
Dominants became less interested in who was offering the submission than that it served their need (whatever that may be).
Those on the right side of the slash began to rebel and fought to 'take back their voice' if you will, and this idea of submission being a 'gift' was born.

History lesson,

Prior to this movement it was quite common for those on the right side of the slash to petition those on the left to be in service to them or their House. Even if it was a 'one night stand', or play partner for the evening this became what we know today as negotiations.
Yes, that's right folks, prior to this time period they did very little in the way of what we today call negotiations. At the very worst, the parties involved surely did not think of it as such. This was before the interwebs. A dominants reputation preceded them. If an s type wanted to be involved with a specific d type all the information they needed was front and center in real life. There was little mystery to who an individual was and what they were about. There may have been casual conversations around kinks or likes, even that was very minimal because of the hanky codes in use so as not to 'scare the vanillas'.

I digress,

I will express something even more unpopular.....
Those on the right side of the slash so massively outweigh the numbers of those on the left (and especially those who can do it well!) that if anything dominance is a gift......in at least a sheer numbers measurement .

From the view points that as unique individuals (as we all are) what we have to give another could be viewed from that lens as a gift. Though, ultimately it is not a gift in reality.

Your time is a gift, you do not have to give it or extend it. Then again, neither does a dominant.

As LL and Estaria pointed to......the dynamic holds the power. Not anyone of the individuals. Every one involved serves the dynamic to perpetuate it, keep it growing, vital, healthy, productive. When we cease to do so is when the dynamic falters and often dies. The dynamic as a functioning whole of the connections is the gift to all involved because we all want it to exist.
As Max pointed to......there is absolutely nothing am s type could give me that I do not give 10 fold in return. Responsibility=power. The more responsibility an s type surrenders to me the more power I have. With that power comes the responsibility of handling it well.....ie: reciprocating/reallocating that power to serve the dynamic for its longevity and health.

I agree with Solace on this one.....tribute is a much more accurate phrasing, but tribute has morphed into a version of p2p sexual watering down of what many lifestylers abhorr but kinksters embrace. So it warrants a clarification nowadays.

Overall, I do understand the desire to call submission a 'gift'. If the alternative is to see submission as something for the dominants whim with no thought to the individual I welcome the idea of seeing it as a 'gift'. If for no other reason than to bring emotionally stunted or cruel individuals from seeing submission as an object to play with, or at the very worst give them pause. There is certainly enough of that masquerading around all the same!

Sweet Minx​(sub female){NotLooking} - The history was very interesting, thank you Drago. Its certainly complicated and Im enjoying this discussion. Some really good points. 😊

aPeepingMom​(sub female) - I've struggled with this concept as well.

On one hand, "gift" means it is freely given and as a submissive who has struggled with men claiming to be doms who try to DEMAND my submission... I want to throw the word gift in their face and tell them they can't demand I give them the gift of my submission. I only give/gift my submission to those who have earned it.

But that thinking then leads me to "earned" and I struggle with this as well. Quite candidly, I will NOT offer my submission to someone who has not earned it. By that, I mean that I must be able to trust them with my life... literally (because hands around my neck is no joke, y'all.) But using the word "earned" sounds like I am rewarding their behavior. And a reward comes from a place of power and control, and as a submissive I am giving that power and control up to my Dom. Am I not?

So if my Dom needs to EARN trust, is it a gift? No. Is it a reward? No. So where does that leave me?

I've landed on "entrust". I am entrusting myself to my Dom because I have faith and confidence in his ability. I am entrusting myself into his care and protection, and he is accepting to receive and deliver that duty or responsibility.

So my submission is not a gift, it is not a reward. It is entrusted.

DaddyDrago{LilAmethys} - Maybe yield?

You DO have power. After all it is YOUR life.
Even the act of yielding is power you are exercising.
You are a gift as a person. Wholly unique. What you offer anyone (friends, family, co-workers etc cetera) no one else can. In as much as your experiences, your lens, your way of being. We all hope to find someone that sees us and our uniqueness as a gift to cherish. We DO freely give of ourselves. We are always ourselves. When we show up and comfort someone, we are giving them our time, our compassion, our listening ear. We are not seeking something in return.
We have requirements when it comes to our dynamics. We are not going to gift our heart, or our physical bodies, or our will, or our choices without there being continued trust present. That requirement is necessary and powerful......to protect the gift that is us. The requirements are like insurance on a package for delivery. Once someone pays for that insurance we will willingly give them us.
In the strictest sense submission is not a gift. It cannot be.
No more than our hearts can be a gift.
We can, however, yield our hearts, bodies, choices, mind, emotions over in surrender. It is not so much that they must be earned as they come with instructions for assembly.
In order to get my body this is the requirement that must be met. Once that requirement is met, however, someone gains access freely do they not? Or so is our intention and hope.
It is all a bit of semantics. We each have definite ways of seeing different words. And we all will not necessarily agree on the same lens of those words.
Ultimately it is what makes us feel safe and brings us peace that matters. If it enriches our lives and helps us to focus and see our dynamics in a clearer way to view what we have to give as a gift......so be it. Even if we know it is literally not a gift.....the idea can be powerful and give us a reason to set high standards (requirements) that are meant to protect the most vulnerable parts of us that we have to give.
That idea, at least in principle, is healthy.

I agree with you though......the wordsmith in me would like to find an idea and term that is honest and not misleading.