On the subject of safewords & punishments

On the subject of safewords & punishments

djinni​(dom female){smplylaura} • May 31, 2019

This might start the proverbial shit storm but I really enjoy getting other’s views, even if I disagree.

I’m following a group on FB and a sub mentioned safewording out of a punishment. This has never made any sense to me. The point of a punishment is to punish, to correct a misdeed or behavior. If one is permitted to safeword then are you really being punished? A good Dominant will do a dead stop of that word comes out, but I just don’t understand how you can take away the very thing you promised him. We all hate punishments.... both sides of the dynamic. I haven’t been in a very long time, but when I was I took it with grace and dignity and was suitably chastised. I did enjoy the aftercare and didn’t even balk at the inevitable lecture (can you safeword ourt of a lecture? I’d rather take a beating than a lecture!). So if we can safeword out of a punishment, can I do that to avoid doing the dishes or cooking dinner? Where does the line get drawn?

Tell me your thoughts, friends!

notsounsureanymore • May 31, 2019

Interesting thought actually. I suppose safewords are only to be used once a situation is becoming unbearable, I think the ability to use it still needs to be there even if it’s during a punishment.
If i safeword it’s because physically or mentally I’m done, I can’t take anymore, I wouldn’t use it just because I don’t like something. If this was during punishment I would expect my Sir to stop obviously, and if needed punish me in a different way once I’ve recovered.

MsNevermore​(other female) • May 31, 2019

If and big if the punishment is outside the limits or actually beyond the capability then I would say okay. Not that the punishment isnt going to happen just brought back to within the scope that they can "tolerate"

And probably one that would be much more unpleasant ie: getting out of pain but will entail discomfort by other means such as drinking apple vinegar or scrubbing floors with a toothbrush....

dollMaker​(dom male) • May 31, 2019

Punishments must be proportional to the misdemeanour and as such discussed before hand and agreed to, consent given to the punishment methodology, and delivery method . Now if consent is ongoing and actively so, renewed with every interaction, in a healthy BDSM relationship then it can also be withdrawn. So in practice a sub could withdraw consent to the punishment either by saying no, using a safe word before or during.

A sub, and others in my view have a sacred right to, for whatever reason, use their safe word and that includes during punishment. A safe word is an in the moment withdrawl of consent, designed to stop activity that is too much for the sub, person to bear. The ideal is that no one causes that to happen, but day to day, even moment by moment the human body, and mind can alter to render a previous sensation, experience no longer tolerable, so a previous punishment delievery method could be too much, in that moment. So the sub should be able to halt the punishment, just as they would in any other BDSM activity, because they know whether what is happening to them, in that moment is tolerable and bearable. That to my mind transcend the causality of the punishment.

There will be those that say that the difference between say a funishment and a punishment renders a safe word use nul and void, because it is a punishment for a misdemeanour and not a fun activity, and if physical - impact tool/belt/cane/tawse should hurt. The thinking here being corporal punishment, was delievered without consent. After all in prisons, past school situations consent was removed regarding rules, discipline, as that situation mean't one had to obey the regime, really without choice. However a sub/other consents to the rules, the dynamic and the possible punishments in a healthy BDSM dynamic. They consent to all of that, so can always and must always be able to remove consent, otherwise to my mind the dynamic becomes abusive, and not healthy.

So in short yes a sub/other can, if they need to use their safe word should be able to and not be penalised for doing so, as should always be the case with any activity in any BDSM relationship model.

As an aside I am not personally in favour of physical punishments as part of a BDSM dynamic, funishments sure, but actual use of physical force to discipline no. Being frank a dom being disappointed is going to be often more corrective, I feel, than a physical punishment.

MasterBrads painpet​(sub female){OWNED} • Jun 1, 2019

The safeword part of this forum stopped me. Why? The other day I received a message from a Dom. Cool. I have questions which I ask

1.) Do you use safewords?
2.) Do you use aftercare?

I received a reply one question from him. Are you a sadist? No I'm not. I like pain but not a sadist or pain slut.

I thought it would be done. It actually caught me off (knowing I'm new). He came back saying only sadist needed these things. I was quick to tell him why they are important. He actually asked me "Like" why you need them.

They are very important. I was told when I first started if a Dom doesn't use either it should be red flags.

thirstyharley​(dom male) • Jun 1, 2019

Remember what safewords are for. Theyre supposed to be used by the sub when theyre at their limit. For example, if I as a dom were spanking my sub and I hit them so hard they start bleeding, and the pain is too much so they use the safeword, then I stop, no question.
If any type of punishment is too much for a sub, then that should have been negotiated beforehand.
If a sub starts using the safeword willy nilly to get out of a bunch of tough stuff, then either their dom isnt respecting their limits, theyre being a difficult brat, or theyre not really very submissive. Remember, subs are supposed to like the things their doms do to them on some level. The idea is very much to embrace it, not coward out of it. All proper doms will respect the safeword period, but if you use the safeword too much, the dom might just decide to either leave the relationship or have a very serious talk.

SweetSirRendering​(sub female) • Jun 1, 2019

my stance is everything dollmaker just said, exactly.

physical punishments as conditioning does work in the short term, but rarely actually teach a lesson unless they are severe punishments and that is where you add negative, potentially long-term emotional outcomes, thus becoming counterproductive to the bond. lessons “taught” with punishment conditioning also rarely have long-term retention as punishments depress dopamine, whereas reward based conditioning enhances dopamine which increases retention.

the big “D” in bDsm is “Discipline”, not punishment .

positive and reward based conditioning are also evidence based to be more effective.

i recommend we remember that intelligent folks are typically drawn to bdsm, so let’s use our intelligence to create strong lasting bonds and desired outcomes. Sure, it takes a little more time, creativity, thought, and discipline to discipline, but it is worth it.

<3

Gilrad​(dom male){TreasureMe} • Jun 1, 2019

Agreed.

NCarraway​(dom male) • Jun 1, 2019

This is such a great question and made me stop and think ... (apologies for stereotyping sexes here)

I hold the concept of a safeword, or at least the concept that the submissive has the right to stop things at any time, as sacred. Consent is a huge part of this lifestyle and the explicit consent of my partner (at the start of the relationship and ongoing through discussion and debate) is such an important part of the jigsaw that I could not continue this lifestyle in its absence. That is my view.

So to answer your question ... is it acceptable that the submissive use the safeword if she/he feels overwhelmed during punishment or before doing the washing-up? Absolutely. That is the submissive's right.

However what i would say is that the use of the safeword means that something is wrong. Either this is too much for the submissive to bear physically, or something is wrong in the relationship and the submissive does not find the care she/he needs. It is the Dom's responsibility to be calibrated in all that he/she does. If he/she is getting a reaction that the safeword is being used during punishment then he/she is not calibrated and may have lost control of the situation. If he/she is getting a reaction that the safeword is being used to get out of chores then the relationship is in poor shape and this may be the submissives (albeit poor) way of communicating this.

DrWakko • Jun 1, 2019

I do not believe in pain punishments. On that note I think you have to look at why the safe word was used. If the sub in the situation thought they were going to be struck out of anger then safe wording might of stoped abuse. To me striking anyone while angry is a form of abuse.

If the sub did it to be bratty then that is a whole other story and that issue should be dealt with and is a whole other topic/issue.

If she did it just to get out of a punishment I think that the Dom in this situation needs to sit down and talk with the sub. Find out why the safe word was used. Find out if maybe the role the sub has isn’t really the right role for them and maybe the relationship needs to be adjusted or terminated. Maybe a new punishment system needs to be put into place.

Safe words can be used when needed. I know people in Master / slave relationships that have a safe word for their relationship. If that safe word is used their relationship is terminated on the spot.

Safe words have meaning and value. They are not to be used in a way that you are crying wolf. Safe words should always be respected and having a conversation on why it was used is helpful so in theory that event doesn’t happen again.

DW