Fear of being outed and its impact on a community

NCarraway​(dom male) • Dec 14, 2022

Good morning, interesting question and one that caused me to reflect on my changing opinions .

I've been in the scene for around 5 years now with about the first 12-18 months as an online only (reading) lurker finding partners online. During that period of my journey I was very very cautious of word getting out and suspicious if who knew what. I imagined that as soon as one person caught a whiff of some of my mal-adjustment then I would be dragged through the the streets, laughed at, tarred and feathered ... you, I am sure have imagined the ridiculous scenario yourselves! I think for me that period was also marked with shame and a struggle coming to terms with what I wanted to do, so I think that fear of outing and the shame are always linked for me.

After that difficult period somewhat abated and I was able to seek out and attend some munches - to enter the local social scene, as it were. At this point I was attending munches away from my home city with the notion that it was 'safer'. This early munching period was in fact a game changer for me as it showed me the great gamut of character types involved in kink. Some people, especially the newbies, were super nervous about imagined situations. Whereas a set of the more experienced were more relaxed with their privacy - taking it seriously but not to the extent that they acted like undercover agents! This is a pattern I have seen repeated time and time again. Newbies are super nervous about being outed and the more 'seasoned' have assessed and reduced the risks but decide it is within their risk profile. What I say here refers to the RL kink community rather than the strictly online which has a different risk profile.

I am a munch organiser today, so I am fairly well known of in my local scene. A handful of close kink friends (and partners) know my first name and have been to my home. My partners know who I am and what I do for a living. I have also 'come out' to a large chunk of my family and they were all very supportive. Am I scared of being outed? Not really. My job is secure on that account because I was already open about that. My last remaining concern is that of my children who are not quite yet mature enough to understand easily. Outing is certainly undesirable but if it happened I would be able to deal with it. I'm not going to hide under a rock waiting for a perfect time to live my life.

One last point I would make is that the further I wade into this great ocean of bdsm, the more I am certain that the techniques, the tools, the gear and even the dynamics, the knowledge, the mindsets are all just moving me in the direction of self awareness. This, for me, is all about understanding who I am and what I want out of life. And on the back of that understanding I know that I need to be outwardly congruent with who I want to be and recognise inwardly. So for that reason being on the local scene and not hiding under a rock is a statement of intent ... its a case of here I am, deal with it. I will absolutely be respectful of other people and that they have not consented to hear about my lifestyle, but I will not pretend to be someone else.

Just a quick note to say that I respect other people's risk evaluation and my reference to hiding under rocks refers to myself and myself only.

B L O N D I E​(sub female) • Dec 14, 2022

Years ago when I was first starting out, I communicated with a couple and I met with the husband for a few minutes in a public place just to talk. He was extremely twitchy, he wore sunglasses through the whole meeting, and he wouldn't tell me his real name. Then he told me about a local dom who had to flee the country when a sub accused him of consent violations. Then this man that I was talking to said that he and his wife always wore full latex masks when they went to public play parties so they couldn't be identified.

I thought, if you think you're going to hide behind a mask to escape the consequences if you make a mistake, that is not someone I want within a hundred miles of me.

There comes a point when trying to protect your anonymity goes too far. It undermines other people's ability to trust you. If you aren't willing to be known for who you are, people aren't going to be able to fully vet you and they are going to think you are up to no good.

Steellover​(sub male) • Dec 17, 2022

I agree with you up to a point, there is nothing wrong with being ashamed of who, or what,you are.

My fear, rather, stems from how a prospective date will react to me if she finds out that "You mean, you LIKE it when a woman ties you up and SPANKS you? And you like being humiliated and forced to play with a strap on? That's WEIRD! Eeew; get away from me, you weirdo!"
And then, if my guy buddies find that out, they might ostracize me, or drop me as a friend as well. Either way, I face the possibility of being "outed" leading to more loneliness and misery, rather than acceptance.

Which is why I enjoy all of you on this site, where I can be who I am, sexually speaking, without fear of judgement. And remember, I am not defined purely by my private and intimate sexual preference. That is only a very small part of who and what I am.

I'mME • Jan 28, 2023

Outing someone else is never okay. It's usually a rule, I believe, at most dungeons, as well as any kink geared organizations, usually written when you sign the paperwork.

Telling your personal business to co-workers is never a good idea, if only because of how vengeful people can become at the smallest thing. Sharing your kink with your families/friends is personal choice, only you know your family and how they may react.

I noticed that no one (except steellover) brought up the issues that could befall a person if outed about their kinkiness. People who have children, then for whatever reason, they decide they don't like each, could very well use their partners kink life in the divorce proceedings to sway the courts opinion. we live in the 21st century, but people are more judgy than ever. It's getting to the point where folks think they can control others just bc they themselves are offended by by some prsse, concept, the list is endless.
I'm not sure how many here are familiar with Fet and how long you may have been there. One day people woke up to find that entire groups were gone, writings were gone, and entire profiles were gone. People were (some still are, lol) we're very upset by this information and the fact of no warning, number one reason cites that they didn't back their work.
For writing purposes here, please assume everything is alledged. I do not know the outcome of the trial but all were members on FET. There was a rape claim made against several individuals. The father of the female was someone with some power, some major juice. They placed a call(s) to some financial institutions and as a result, kinky businesses whose transactions consisted of credit cards disappeared off of Fet. They were strong armed (it's the phrase that comes first to my mind) threatened by having those privledges or being able to accept credit cards for payment revoked if they continued advertising on Fet.
Rhis case was in Australia, sorry I forgot to state that at the beginning. So this man has some serious friends in high places, and felt that FET has contributed to his daughters rape. It was 2 or 3 individuals, so a gang incident.
The power that is over at FET deleted (or that is the concept that was conveyed) profiles , writings, groups & their discussions (some of it was years of discussions) poof, gone for anonymity purposes.

The ripple effects of those phone calls affected the things above and then helped in certain things becoming taboo and against. against policy on FET. Rape play, blood play, (I'm forgetting some, my apologies).

The above or a situation similar is always a possibility. So, the influx of new people may or may not be the reason for a seemingly relaxed stance on sharing kinky proclivities. However there are plenty of people who will never be okay with TTTWD.

Just sharing a different perspective on the forum question.

Sasa​(dom female) • Jan 28, 2023

I don't know if people have those problems in my country. We are not running into a church every Sunday, and our friends might be more open after some of those superficial movies everyone seems to hate. Maybe we feel less guilty and it is even a topic in newspapers, how to do it and why... Many experienced are less arrogant toward newbies or simply curious people. That means it is growing here.

Anyway, submissive females are more or less acceptable for an open society, sub males not at all, and also not dommes. That's how it is, still, and it might be one reason many doms are simply service tops until they understand what they are truly looking for.

Since we all are not Elon Musk we keep our private desires low and that's fine. I'm sorry for the fear of this guy. I have learned we have flats with private playrooms, and it seems there is a market for that, a growing market. It is nice to have a fully equipped flat for a weekend or more, without the noise in clubs, without having someone in a hotel room or at our front door. And yes, there is no chance that you wouldn't ever meet someone again who likes the same. I think it is ironic that we seek them and call them community and then they start to be enemies. What a twisted society

I'mME • Jan 28, 2023

Sasa,
Do you remember when we first chatted and I used the word community and then (,using the word in the loosest sense)...

Good to read your down to Earth answers. That is all I know is down to Earth.
Never something I am not.


Ps
Loose Lips Sink Ships...

Kurai Mori​(dom male) • Jan 29, 2023

@I'mME;
I recall the Fet incident revolving around the credit card issue. I lost several groups in that mess and even had my old profile turned off. But I wasn't aware of the back story. I got the Fet version - that it was being driven by the credit company wanting to have control over the content of the site and what they would or wouldn't be associated with.

Sasa​(dom female) • Jan 29, 2023

I have never thought that the sexuality of people is that important, but I'm a northern European. If the churches are trying to keep their influence or better extend it, the government now too ... yes I see that. Companies are just logic and information is everything today. I'm so sorry and I hope you all are safe.

dollMaker​(dom male) • Jan 29, 2023

Your thoughts, by my understanding, are correct.

My understanding is that numerous groups involved in activity which most kinksters would find abhorrent, along with the more extreme kinks which would/should fall under 'not my kink but that's ok' were found to be the sort that credit card processing companies could and would not allow their services to be associated with - so they cut ties. There were, again my understanding several instances of this, with the more recent issues they objected to being associated with surrounding blood play. The solution was to force members to make photos with blood play friends only, and if I recall right, groups tied into that and some other extreme activity were closed down etc.

Originally, during the first period of problems, after initial push back and, some work arounds failing/not delivering as hoped, that site had a rethink, and decided to pander to the credit card processing companies demands, before the goal posts were moved again re other activity credit card processers did not want to be associated with. Its my understanding that many adult sites, not just BDSM ones had these problems, so its definitely not specific to that one. The SESTA/FOSTA laws brought in by the USA, also fed into those issues as well, adding more problems to adult sites.

ImME has (I think) conflated a number of issues and mixed them up, and together.

The personage she hints at (I think) is/was a wanabe writer who had flocks of followers who along with several other persons in the in person scene (their location) was involved in a number of in person very problematic occurrences that ended up with the police involved, and going to court. This person was not particularly wealthy and no more had the power to threaten a website than any average joe. My understanding is that during the police investigation various profiles, content and private messages were locked down, which would facilitate the investigation. Ultimately the case collapsed. Anyone can check all of this out online as numerous international news agencies and papers covered the story - and the information/articles are still accessible. This case happened after the first set of credit card processing woes, so the two are not linked.

In general a site as big as the one mentioned, with the numbers of members it has, sadly has had a number of historical instances of members involved in awful occurrences, some having lead to individuals popping up in the media and doing time, once they were taken to court, and found guilty of those awful occurrences. Again easy enough to look those up online, re news papers and news agency reports, even a few in true crime media if you know what to look for.

_______________________________________

Addressing the OP, BDSM is a mostly illegal activity, in pretty much all countries round the world, with a few tolerating some activity, to a degree, but many not, to any degree. The act of being outed can lead to various, not all, predictable occurrences including: family breakups, loosing a job, long term career damage, loosing custody of children, being dragged through the media, reputations destroyed etc. Plenty of verifiable instances of this online, in news agency/newspaper articles.

Is this fair, no, but it is what it is and despite the influence of 50 Shades in the media BDSM is still viewed by most as something those 'sick disgusting perverts do.' Maybe someday, I live in hope, aspects will be legalised, and being kinky protected in law, but we are decades away, if ever, and with the rise of conservative views currently, threatening the LGBTQ+ community, rights and liberties hard won, are being rolled back, with being outed as being a member of that community now having very real consequences, in some places, as it once did back in the 1950s to 1990s. With that in mind, what hope is their really for kink/BDSM?

Intolerance, actual hatred against being queer or trans is on the rise (present on this site, as is racism), and while there is some cross over into BDSM communities among those people, most are vanilla, not kinky, and are sadly once again living in fear. Where is the progress here? Its transitory, can be taken away and I think regarding BDSM its unlikely there will be any progress. There is a reason BDSM is still, mostly, an underground activity, and under the radar, though in the recent decade, less so than it once was. I wish it was possible to be out and proudly kinky. However it still isn't, except for a very few, in very privileged circumstances.

With all that said if you can be out and proud good on you, but many can't and being outed is a disaster waiting to happen for any of us, and as someone who has been outed I can tell you its not a nice thing to happen, experience. Anyone found outing, should in my view be for ever more exiled. Do not out, ever.

Kurai Mori​(dom male) • Jan 30, 2023

Thank you for the clarification @dollMaker...