Beauty & the Bondage

blushingforyou​(sub female) - It’s so funny you posted this !
I was just thinking this myself the other day.

ChasingAmy​(sub female) - yassssss!!! **claps**

SirsBabyDoll​(sub female){Pizza+☕} - I'm not sure I agree with the cause and effect argument, however, I do think that certain traumas may sometimes be dealt with in unhealthy ways and BDSM is a catalyst for those unhealthy ways.

I suppose that in the end, it's a chicken or the egg argument. Does it really matter which came first because life is hard and sometimes, you need a paid secret keeper to help you organize your emotions.

Guyyy​(dom male) - I think I agree. Trauma definitely doesn’t always cause an interest in bdsm. Human beings are incredibly complex, and quantifying that one thing always leads is silly.

ewieya​(sub female){Myself} - There are studies and articles out there about childhood trauma and those who engage in BDSM. There was a really old study by the Kinsey Institute (this was in the 40's or 50's, but it was a huge study and the only one at the time in which participants were interviewed one-on-one) that found that those who engage in BDSM are no more likely to have suffered childhood trauma than those who do not. I just did a search and found an article about a newer study that found the same, however those who engage in BDSM are more likely to score high on emotional trauma and emotional neglect, specifically.

I'm only pointing this out because if it's not true on the whole, I'd rather people not associate abuse leading to BDSM. I hope that makes sense.

That said, I agree 100% that therapy should be considered/tried by everyone!

Guyyy​(dom male) - I didn’t say abuse, I said trauma. Not the same thing at all.

There isn’t much research on bdsm that I would consider vigorous and conclusive, but the idea that most who engage in bdsm experienced emotional trauma definitely tracks with my anecdotal observations.

At the end of the day I agree with you that therapy is for everyone. I hope we can change the stigma on that.

AngelBunny - I have heard about those same studies and believe too there should be more studies done. Trauma is more nuanced then what most people realize. Even "experts," if they don't come from a trauma informed background, aren't going to get it. Chronic little "t" traumas especially in childhood and early adult (our brains are still developing until mid to late 20's) can manifest in the same way as big "T" trauma. I have read here on The Cage where Dom's punished their sub for being a "brat" and I wandered if they stopped to understand what was behind their sub's behavior. Perhaps she had a trauma trigger and was in the fight/flight trauma response? Punishment isn't going to fix that and mostly likely make it worse. If the punishment seemed to help it's likely because the Dom put the sub in a freeze or fawn response instead. It didn't resolve the real issue, the sub's trauma. Also, I have observed some subs seem to expect their Dom's to be their therapist when what they really need is an actual therapist. I don't know if everyone in BDSM has trauma but in general a lot people have had trauma and because of the risks involved in this lifestyle, it just seems wise to be in therapy at least at some point in their BDSM journey. If not the risk is this, someone may be, albeit unintentionally, putting themselves in a situation to either be retraumatized or to re-enact someone else's trauma, causing more damage and keeping the trauma cycle going. To me therapy is about making the unconscious conscious about having self-awareness so that instead of the unconscious controlling us, we start to control it. What can seem like fate becomes free will.

SirsBabyDoll​(sub female){Pizza+☕} - I have trauma. My ACE score is a 9 out of 10. So yes, you do know someone and I know plenty of others. Just read chapter 7 & 8 of my Brat series and you'll read all about it.

Guyyy​(dom male) - Wow. Yes, doms punishing brats without understanding their behavior…this is the exact sort of thing that worries me. You make some great points. Better than I could.

I'mME - Everyone is allowed to believe what they want to believe. Varying factors can influence what and how people think. One of those things is age and another is some people think everyone gets depressed and/or has trauma stemming from childhood, amd accompanying those notions is everyone needs to go to therapy.

The thing I have noticed (I can not say 100% of the time this is true, bc blanket statements is not something I do) when reading this or hearing it, is that this comes from people born after GenX.
I will not delve into this subject but let me say there are many factors that culminated to affect the generations after X.
Maybe getting into kink at the age of 17yo affected your beliefs on this aspect, I'm not sure and never having had a conversation or seen any forum posts by you, I have nothing else but your profile to go on.

Your belief is equal to stating that there is something wrong with w power exchanges relationships. There are different types of PE, not sure if you know that, but last count was 4 or 5. Are you aware that (also since you brought it up) nor all PE relationships use pain?
You statements: everyone has trauma, everyone needs therapy, to be in a PE dynamic equals to something is wring with a parson and they need therapy. That's a vicious hamster wheel your suppositions present.
You require all your subs to go to therapy!! The thought that came to my mind were many, however, I do not think, actually, I know if i wrote them down, they would be ignored.

For clarification, there is not one thing wrong with seeing a therapist. If the fit is right, then amazing things could happen.

Guyyy​(dom male) - I don’t see how looking out for a submissive’s mental health is “vicious” at all. It doesn’t replace listening to her. It’s simply another tool for her to have.

I would say that everyone in the entire world needs to work on their mental health. We all have flaws and ways that we need to grow— if we want to be happy anyway.

I'mME - *I don’t see how looking out for a submissive’s mental health is “vicious” at all. *

Man, thr hamster wheel analogy was written before I touched on your sub mandate. And after reading the rest of your reply to me, I can see that I would be wasting my time to point out the other areas where you you misquote, twist around, whatever you want to label it my words.
I do not have hidden meanings behind what i write. What is you read is what you get.


Over and out

Guyyy​(dom male) - Best of luck to you on your journey.

I'mME - *At the end of the day I agree with you that therapy is for everyone. I hope we can change the stigma on that.*

If somone needs therapy, by all means please seek therapy out.

The idea that EVERYONE needs therapy is a stigma in itself.

Guyyy​(dom male) - I do think that mental health awareness is important for all. And I’ve also noticed that the more mentally healthy someone is, the more likely they are to seek guidance and perspective on life, and be open to others telling them they are wrongs

As a young person the most common term I heard for psychiatrists was “shrinks”. When I finally gave it a shot I had a couple very unhelpful counselors, one who was maybe even bad. So I hear you on formal therapy as not having all the answers, but I still think that we all do need help and perspective sometimes

ChasingAmy​(sub female) - There’s some schools in the world that teach cognitive behavioral skills as a basic lesson…similar to home economics or shop if you will. Same with mindfulness/meditation.

Yea everyone can and does benefit from those activities. Healthy or not.

The equivalent would be saying not everyone benefits from exercise…
Even a truly fit person benefits from the work out.

Any type of therapy, mindfulness, meditation is just exercise for the consciousness.

Literate Lycan​(dom male) - I’ll start by saying I respect your beliefs, as you indicate they are based upon your years of experience in the lifestyle. But I politely disagree with your assessment. I concur there are people who I’ve chatted with who engage in BDSM who have suffered some trauma in their formative years. But I tend to agree with the studies (as indicated in previous comments) that there is no more likelihood that someone who engages in BDSM has suffered some trauma than those who live a “vanilla” life.

Tricky thing categorically saying everyone must do anything. Can therapy offer benefits that most people enjoy? Probably. Do most people need therapy? Doubtful. Must everyone see a therapist? No. To state that everyone suffered trauma is to a great degree belittling those who actually suffered trauma. (Although in this day and age where apparently everyone is a victim, maybe they all have suffered some trauma). And I do guess in the spirit of discussion, trauma can be in the eye of the individual and may be based upon what you believe constitutes trauma.

As I’mMe indicated above, when you indicate everyone (especially in BDSM) needs therapy, you are literally putting a stigma on the lifestyle itself, indicating we cannot simply enjoy these proclivities but we have to have some blemish in our past. Is it possible I’m simply very much into the pleasure of my partner? The activities we participate in engage our senses. These senses give us feelings that we enjoy. An intense orgasm is enhanced by some of these activities. Rope bunnies get a rope high, so what trauma did they suffer that would cause them to desire to be tied up? We reach euphoric states in our practices. Isn’t that enough reason to want to experience it?

Many current individuals turning to the lifestyle simply read a book. Granted, from what I hear it was poorly written, so perhaps that is the trauma that is leading them to BDSM (😏 just kidding - I never got around to reading the books so I shouldn’t judge them). But they are entering the waters not knowing how to swim other than they read a book and were turned on by it.

I would add, the motives behind why we engage in something might be systemic to whether we suffered or not. What I do sometimes I do because my partner enjoys it. Women I have been with enjoy a firm hand on their ass (impact play) which I’ve grown to love - but it wasn’t on my to-do list as I formed my beliefs. However as I learned how it feels to them and to me, I grew to enjoy it greatly. Once I learned that, I opened my aperture up to learning other things within the lifestyle, practices I would never have considered when I was younger. Looking at my formative years, I had an idyllic life and upbringing. All the trauma of my life happened well after I learned about the lifestyle and developed a desire for it. And that trauma hasn’t changed how I feel or believe.

I hope you take my comments in the spirit they are intended. Discussion only. Have a great evening.

Guyyy​(dom male) - Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree and relate to quite a few things. I would like to clarify the two main points of the post:

One
I believe that some sort of trauma was the initial attraction to BDSM. That doesn't require abuse, it doesn't have to have happened in childhood, and I doesn't have to be capital-T Trauma. Many experience lowercase "trauma" from being left out, bullied, or even by being the favorite or having too much attention. The important thing with trauma isn't the extremeness of the experience, it's how we internalize the experience.

You do prompt a good question: what about people who got into BDSM because of a partner? That's a fair point, but in my experience that that's rare and not all that much fun to debate.

Two
Yes, I think everyone needs mental health help at some point in their lives.

What I don't say in the post is that I think there are a lot of stereotypes in BDSM and on this site that would be directly helped by mental health awareness. There are many aggressive, rude and toxic doms on this site. There are many subs who mis-respresent themselves. There's a lot of people who prefer to live in an online fantasy rather than the real world. I'm going to be brazen and say that I don't think these are good things to try to normalize, and I think that that mental health awareness would help anyone who falls into one of these categories find a much faster path toward happiness.

Literate Lycan​(dom male) - I appreciate the civil discourse. Thank you.

Right up front, I'll agree wholeheartedly that we should not normalize aggressive, rude or toxic behavior from anyone. And the world at large has gone completely digital, so is living an online fantasy that big of a stretch? (Although it does depend on whether this is just a tad bit of a distraction or they are living the life online 24/7 but who am I to judge). And granted, I'm chatting in this discussion via the internet instead of sitting down with you; a Bourbon in one hand, cigar in the other. 🤔. Which reminds me . . . I think I'll pour a bourbon and light a cigar - thanks. I digress - just because there are some individuals like that, doesn't mean everyone needs to see a medical professional.

So basically (and I don't mean to be obtuse) everyone in BDSM was led here by Trauma? Wow - I'd like to meet this person Trauma - they get around. (Kidding here - I joke extensively)

No. Some things in life are experience. Some traumatic experience may have led some people here. Others have a more positive experience which led them here. Like I did. But not every experience is the same nor traumatic.

Anyone who wants to see a therapist or medical professional should. And honestly, some experiences do need clinical, medical support - not a Dominant or submissive who will rearrange their life to help them cope. There are those on this site and others seeking an answer that honestly medical treatment would suit them best. And as you say, get them to a happier place faster.

But you hit on a point I do agree with: pretty much it's how we internalize experiences as to whether it's traumatic. And there in lies my position. I don't think as many people get into BDSM because they are internalizing past events. I think a great many looked into the mirror and fell into Wonderland. Do some have issues? Yes. Do all? No. That's my position. And therapy isn't the answer for everyone. I'm glad it worked for you. But I'd caution you demanding that every submissive you get into a longterm relationship must see a therapist. You aren't qualified to determine that - and they may feel they have issues that really aren't issues - or the therapist may help them discover issues that really weren't a problem to begin with. As you indicated, not all therapists are on the same level. And I've seen more than one self-described "professional" actually attempt to seduce patients through this site and others offering to provide them counseling. Luckily many of the submissives talk and share information and they get ferreted out promptly.

Returning to the discussion on whether trauma leads all people to BDSM, I can go back to myself as an example. I'm definitely not the only one and considering my age and years of experience, I would say it does count to some minor degree when debating. And I find this fun. 😁 I am friends with a good number of other Dominant men and we've discussed how we came to being in this lifestyle. They fell into it very much like I did - introduced by a partner.

Just like the current explosion of women (and men) who read a few romance novels and found themselves wet or hard and wanting a new experience. I speak from my own experience: as indicated, I was introduced to BDSM some time ago by a woman already experienced. She was submissive and she said she saw Dominance in me. Fair enough. Many aspects of the life I had never considered nor was I initially drawn to. They weren't in my vocabulary. However as she explained them to me, I was intrigued. And once I fell into the rabbit hole, there was a great deal more to see.

Good chat! Pour yourself a bourbon and join me in reveling in this discussion.